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1991 EDM EE8 Black Betty (moving to England in Oct)

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Re: 1991 EDM EE8 Black Betty

Postby Treezy » Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:11 pm

Sooo.... While I'm waiting on the throttle response issued to get figured out, I thought it would be a good time to get a new toy for Betty :)

Image

Only thing that sucks is that it will take something like 6-8 weeks to get here..
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Re: 1991 EDM EE8 Black Betty

Postby Treezy » Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:21 am

Alright, so I just replaced the TPS and swapped in a 4 bar, still having the same problem. Looks like it's a wiring issue, the Hondata log shows the TPS signal not functioning properly. Nothing was swapped out from the last setup, except the ECU had the S300 installed. I'm gonna have to troubleshoot the wires and hopefully not have to replace the S300/ECU :(
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Re: 1991 EDM EE8 Black Betty

Postby Gr8_EE8 » Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:37 am

Did you perform a calibration routine on the TPS to program the offsets for throttle closed to WOT? Also, are your TPS wires shielded from interference with the shielding grounded at the ECU and insulated at the TPS? What does your data log look like, ad is it different with the engine off? Log some sweeps of the sensor with ign on and engine off, and do the same with a running engine. That will tell you if it is the sensor or the wiring.
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Re: 1991 EDM EE8 Black Betty

Postby Treezy » Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:20 pm

Sorry... had to leave to Norway on business and then been hard at work since my return. Finally able to get over and check on the car. The issue was a bad wire from the TPS to the ECU, easy fix. Then the potentiometer broke on the TPS, so yeah.. Then we had a lot of smoke coming out... Thought it was the turbo, but after removing the DP, turns out that my 1.5 hour drive after I blew the motor last year drained most of the oil down the exhaust into the muffler and pooled. Once the exhaust heated up, it cooked. That, too, was an easy fix.

I found some Sparco seats.. Looking for a new hood, front and rear bumpers, and a heater/ac console.

She goes to the dyno next Wednesday:

Image
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Re: 1991 EDM EE8 Black Betty

Postby Gr8_EE8 » Fri Oct 23, 2015 1:43 am

Right on, glad it's sorted. In the mean time, I figured out the motor mount issue with the EE8. The correct mounts are 1990 DA Teg LS with cable trans/1991-1992 GSR with cable trans. Very specific. The RHD version has a different axle/subframe/crossmember assy and a different trans mount, so that explains the issue you had with the left mount being the only one to fit! I had to figure it out by pulling my mounts and subframe, because Innovative had no f'ng idea and the most the Germans can get away with is aftermarket replacement poly bushings. So that's that. Welcome back.
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Re: 1991 EDM EE8 Black Betty

Postby Treezy » Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:12 am

Absolutely awesome info! I'll be jumping on some new mounts here in the near future. Yeah, glad to be back, and will be glad to finally get my car back! So I'm also in the market for a hood and some bumpers for the EE8.., would you happen to know of any around up there? I've seen them on ebay.de, but figured I'd ask..
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Re: 1991 EDM EE8 Black Betty

Postby Treezy » Sat Oct 24, 2015 2:55 am

Thanks again for the classifieds info.. I would normally be looking at a fiberglass hood, but with traction being an issue in this light of a chassis, I'm looking to stick with a steel hood. I installed the traction bar and upgraded the wheels/tires to the max for street driving, but we'll see how it handles before I purchase. We're already talking about possibly going to slicks for the dyno to keep it from slipping on the rollers.
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1991 EDM EE8 Turbo B16A1 "Black Betty"
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Re: 1991 EDM EE8 Black Betty

Postby Treezy » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:02 am

Also.. For anyone following my showroom build thread.. If you're looking for quality racing gear at a decent price, check out "ProFox Racing." That's where I picked up my flame retardant undies/head sock/socks a while back. They also sell suits, shoes, harnesses, etc. It's a grassroots company with good customer service. I was gong to pick up a set of sparco shoes, but I can nab three pairs from ProFox for the same price.. crazy. Anyway, just a plug for a company I had good dealings with, figured I'd share the info :-)b
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1991 EDM EE8 Turbo B16A1 "Black Betty"
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Re: 1991 EDM EE8 Black Betty

Postby Treezy » Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:47 pm

BEEN GONE FOR A WHILE!!! So here's the updates:

The :yell: @#$@%$%$^$@#@$@ car still isn't running!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We finally got it situated and hit the dyno.. The shop had issues with using Hondata... So we hit the dyno again mid-December with a Superbike tuner, ran into an issue with rev-limiter activation, vtec, wires grounding, etc.. I sorted it all out and hit the dyno AGAIN before Christmas.. The radiator hose blew, had to re-pin some other wires, then we were rolling!! We tuned all the way up to 6K rpms annnnnnnnnnnnnd done :( They cut her off, and I just got the results of the damage today: a chunk of the ceramic from my #4 spark plug broke off and damaged the piston, then lodged itself in the exhaust valve.. I now need a new plug, two new valves, we're fixing the valve seats, a piston, and new head gasket :yell:

Here's some pics to bring you up to speed on where I'm at:

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1991 EDM EE8 Turbo B16A1 "Black Betty"
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Re: 1991 EDM EE8 Black Betty

Postby Robinv » Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:39 pm

Those damn spark plugs.
Good luck with the rebuilt.
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Re: 1991 EDM EE8 Black Betty

Postby NovaVTEC » Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:51 pm

Man that hurts. Better go back to regular NGK next time. Everything else is marketing.
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Re: 1991 EDM EE8 Black Betty

Postby Josip » Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:23 pm

What sparkplugs you had?
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Re: 1991 EDM EE8 Black Betty

Postby NovaVTEC » Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:36 am

Why? Never heard of this before...
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Re: 1991 EDM EE8 Black Betty

Postby Treezy » Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:51 am

So more/consistent spark is marketing...? But yeah, first time I've EVER heard NGK is good but only if it comes from Japan.. I heard their JDM ash trays are better because they smell like a better brand of cigarettes, too :rolleyes1:

http://www.ngk.com/SearchResults.aspx?kw=bkr6eq
Image

I have been using iridiums for years and forgot I switched to the laser platinums for this build after a ton of reading. Regardless, it seems that I need to just stick with iridiums and call it a day :eatfly:
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Re: 1991 EDM EE8 Black Betty

Postby KevinEF7 » Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:41 pm

All that jazz really is just marketing. The NGK BKR7E is all you need for 98% of turbo Hondas, even high HP. $2 a plug, change em a few times a season. Sorry to hear about your luck, hope your rolling soon!
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Re: 1991 EDM EE8 Black Betty

Postby NovaVTEC » Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:01 pm

Basic physics tells us the spark will only go off once. It might take a random anode each time it fires but it is still one single spark each of those times. But now there are four times as many parts to fall off...
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Re: 1991 EDM EE8 Black Betty

Postby JeffWilliamsUSA » Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:10 pm

man that's un-believable that a little piece of ceramic could do all that damage :shock:
Sorry to hear about this .. i would say " i guess it could have been worse" but .. gee , i don't think so ..

Do you think there were other contributing factors ? running rich or something ?
Could it be something as simple as the parts guy dropped your box of spark plugs and a hairline crack was in the ceramic ?

I'm swapping a GSR now, just to be on the safe side .. i'll use Iridium too :-)b
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Re: 1991 EDM EE8 Black Betty

Postby Treezy » Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:48 am

There was a reason I used them and I'm sure it had to do with a misunderstanding somewhere.. So to alleviate that misunderstanding, I did additional research:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 7912000883

This is the kind of thing that sways me, not people saying stuff like ebay is crap or china sucks, etc.. (sorry, random facebook comments I read earlier) I did research at some point on it, but what I found seems to may have been more as previously stated: "marketing". Regardless, I'm posting that link so everyone has a solid source of scientific measurements and comparisons to reference.

I have a friend who swears by 4554s and all of his racers do as well. My only issue with it is they're heat range 8's, and I'm wondering if that may be too cold. I was running 7's in the past and my guy is currently using BR7EIX's in his evo with only 50hp more than my top numbers and no issues, so that's what I'll be looking to install this go-round.

As for additional factors, I do believe that there may have been some detonation in the cylinder that could very well have caused the crack to occur during previous cranks and dyno attempts. I'm going to inspect them thoroughly prior to install and ensure the compression test is done accurately prior to start-up (not saying it wasn't before). The positive side is that we've already mapped the first 6k rpms for fuel trim, so hopefully the rich/lean issue won't really factor in much on the next run.
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1991 EDM EE8 Turbo B16A1 "Black Betty"
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Re: 1991 EDM EE8 Black Betty

Postby Treezy » Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:19 pm

All parts ordered.. hopefully I'll get them in before I leave to Norway.. Otherwise that'll set me back another month :( I guess we'll see..
Founder, Evasive Illusions MSC
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1991 EDM EE8 Turbo B16A1 "Black Betty"
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Re: 1991 EDM EE8 Black Betty

Postby dliverance » Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:31 pm

did the ceramic get into the spark plug before it was installed? I don't understand how else it could have gotten into the combustion chamber. Also, I swear by the NGK BKR7E. Never done me wrong.
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Re: 1991 EDM EE8 Black Betty

Postby NovaVTEC » Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:01 pm

Cool read. Thanks!
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Re: 1991 EDM EE8 Black Betty

Postby Treezy » Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:36 am

Thanks Nova..

Deliverance, I'm not sure what you're talking about.. The spark plug is exposed to the cylinder to ignite the fuel, and it has an insulator made of ceramic.. :| I'm not sure how else I could explain it so here is a diagram direct from NGK: https://www.ngk.com/glossary/8/spark-plug/I

A chunk broke off during engine operation and caused the damage.
Founder, Evasive Illusions MSC
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1991 EDM EE8 Turbo B16A1 "Black Betty"
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Re: 1991 EDM EE8 Black Betty

Postby Gr8_EE8 » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:07 am

Man, you've had some [crud] luck with your engine(s)! It is never much help to hear it, but it could have been much worse. Hope you're back on the road soon.
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Re: 1991 EDM EE8 Black Betty

Postby Treezy » Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:26 pm

Just a quick update.. I still don't have my parts.. :evil: ordered 3 months ago.. They should be here this week.. As soon as I get back on track I'll post more updates.
Founder, Evasive Illusions MSC
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1991 EDM EE8 Turbo B16A1 "Black Betty"
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Re: 1991 EDM EE8 Black Betty

Postby Josip » Sun May 01, 2016 10:23 am

Why did it take so much time?
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