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HELP!!! 88 CRX HF failed CALIFORNIA smog! HELP!!!!!!

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HELP!!! 88 CRX HF failed CALIFORNIA smog! HELP!!!!!!

Postby Black_CRX_hf » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:43 pm

I'll start with the results.
Image
Sorry for the low quality image, had to take it with my phone. I'll go over the details In case u can't see the image.
the in 15 MPH the RPMS were 2264 (Don't know what gear the technician had it, if he had it in FIRST gear SHOULD THE HF be tested in 2nd GEAR because of the special gearing?)
15 MPH ----HC (PPM) MEASURED 273 MAX ALLOWABLE IS 103----- CO% WAS AT 2.94 MAX ALLOWED IS 0.62. ---NOx (PPM) WAS 1011 MAX ALLOWED IS 889.

Now at 25 MPH the RPM was at 1999 (can any one calculate which gear the was in?)
25 MPH----HC (ppm) MEASURED 30 MAX ALLOWABLE IS 85 (IT'S GOOD THERE) --CO% MEASURED 0.01 MAX ALLOWED 0.54.(IT'S GOOD THERE TOO)--NOX MEASURED 860 MAX ALLOWED IS 828 (FAILED BY 32 PPM)

THE TIMING WAS SET AT 16 btc.

Ok now the challenge is on the state of california lowered the maximum allowable emissions this year because if you fail you can buy a 2 month moving permit for $50 that's right it's extortion so F#*+ them.

I now a bit about the emission systems, the NO is lowered by the EGR valve by shoting exhaust gases back in the combustion chamber to lower the temps. I tested the actuation of the egr with a vacuum pump and noticed it would activate initially but as the RPMs went up the vacuum to egr would stop all together I figured the ECM would throw on the Check engine light if it wasn't supposed to do that. So......?

I also Have a "test" pipe (empty HF catalytic converter) I'm tempted to put it on and get a PRE TEST to determine the Catalytic efficiency of the Catalytic Converter it has now, which I took a look at and all the honey comb material in there looked good.

So my concerns are the EGR Actuation.
The gear the tech chose to do the test.
The fact that it's pretty hot is SOCAL right now.
and If I buy a NEW CATALYTIC converter and it still fails.

I'm in Los Angeles If any one cares to help me out! :cry:
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Re: HELP!!! 88 CRX HF failed CALIFORNIA smog! HELP!!!!!!

Postby ef yu » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:14 pm

My brother works at a smog station and he says that smog is becoming really difficult to deal with now.
The cars engine speed and gear have to be within a certain range in order to pass so i am sure he did it right. Also the vehicle weight is a big deal too so you cant use another car to pass it.

maybe a second cat will help? i put two catalytic converter on my hf before. I am sure the original catalytic thats 20+ years old is probably bad.

also have you tried to clean the EGR?
- jim
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Re: HELP!!! 88 CRX HF failed CALIFORNIA smog! HELP!!!!!!

Postby msc » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:20 pm

The timing should be 14° +/- 2° BTDC. Your at the most advanced limit. Try 14° or even go to 12° and that should bring the NO down.

How many miles on the engine and how much oil does it burn?

Is the exhaust system completely stock?

How fresh are your plugs and do you have the correct plugs? NGK BCPR5E-11 or BCPR5EY-N11 for all normal driving, NGK BCPR6E-11 or BCPR6EY-N11 for hot climates or continuos high speed driving. This is different then DX or Si calls for.

The main problems with the EGR system are a gunked up valve or plugged passages in the manifold. If the valve does not move smoothly when vacuum is applied the valve is loaded up with carbon and needs to be cleaned out. If the valve moves fully when vacuum is applied but the engine does not stall the passages in the manifold are plugged up with carbon and need to be cleaned out.

Mike
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Re: HELP!!! 88 CRX HF failed CALIFORNIA smog! HELP!!!!!!

Postby Black_CRX_hf » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:52 pm

Thanks Mike the plugs may not be correct, I may have gotten the same ones as my 96 civic thinking they were the same. What's the gap to be set at? My hood label is long gone.

As far as the timing, I'll set it at 14 but which mark is 14? I wish Honda had incremental numbers on the timing chain covers like all other cars.

I as far as the second cat, I don't think the state allows that, in fact any replacement cat has to have an approval mark for California.

I'll mess with the EGR a little.
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Re: HELP!!! 88 CRX HF failed CALIFORNIA smog! HELP!!!!!!

Postby Dave_Darling » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:04 pm

Since everything is high in the 15 MPH test, I would suspect an ignition problem. Especially if the car hesitates or does not run smoothly.

--DD
"Mango Bango", 1990 CRX Si -- Sold on 10/01/11, with 227,000 miles.

VTEC is Honda's "select a cam profile on the fly" system; VTECH is a crappy phone.
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Re: HELP!!! 88 CRX HF failed CALIFORNIA smog! HELP!!!!!!

Postby Black_CRX_hf » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:42 pm

Ok just changed the spark plugs I got the NGK BCPR5E-11 mike recommended I tried to look up the gap, the pep boys data base had the gap at .044 so that's what I set them to. The old spark plugs were NKG BKR6EGP, I think I put them on because they were platinum, the gap on those was .038. They looked ok the electrode was normal.

And yes the exhaust is the tiny HF stock exhaust.

The EGR valve, does not fully stall the engine when I manually pinch up the diaphragm open. It runs rough and shakes but does not stall. The vacuum moves the plunger smoothly untill about 2000 rpm when the vacuum to the EGR drops to zero. (On all other cars the vacuum to the EGR keeps going up with RPMs) when I first noticed the sudden drop of vacuum to the EGR at about 2000 rpm I switched out the emissions box on the firewall and checked all the vacuum lines and it still did it so I figured that's how it's supposed to be. Now I don't think so.

Also checked the timming with the jumper in and properly warmed up. It was on the middle mark. What is that? 16 BTDC? Or is that 14? And the next is 12?

Also I had the head rebuilt about a year ago. And did the valve clearance adjustment per a CRX Pdf manual I downloaded online. IT TURNS OUT THAT WAS AN EURO CRX SHOP MANUAL!

Here's and image of the EURO valve setting, I doubt it's the same for US spec but can anyone confirm?
Image
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Re: HELP!!! 88 CRX HF failed CALIFORNIA smog! HELP!!!!!!

Postby Dave_Darling » Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:29 pm

Same clearances. I am not sure about the cam position, though. I know that the Si uses a different mark, aligned with a pointer on the timing belt housing, rather than two marks aligned with the head surface. I'm not sure about the HF.

--DD
"Mango Bango", 1990 CRX Si -- Sold on 10/01/11, with 227,000 miles.

VTEC is Honda's "select a cam profile on the fly" system; VTECH is a crappy phone.
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Re: HELP!!! 88 CRX HF failed CALIFORNIA smog! HELP!!!!!!

Postby Black_CRX_hf » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:23 pm

Passed!!! Super clean emissions, all with the stock 24yr old catalytic converter! I had to take off the intake manifold and drill out the EGR passages caps with a 1/4 bit, cleaned out the EGR ports into the manifold 3 were blocked solid! Then I used the M8 1.25 tap to make threads in the manifold holes, which I then caped with 12mm short screws coated with gasket maker, not too much gasket maker. Pic of the results below
Image
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Re: HELP!!! 88 CRX HF failed CALIFORNIA smog! HELP!!!!!!

Postby Dave_Darling » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:19 pm

Congrats!! :)

--DD
"Mango Bango", 1990 CRX Si -- Sold on 10/01/11, with 227,000 miles.

VTEC is Honda's "select a cam profile on the fly" system; VTECH is a crappy phone.
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Re: HELP!!! 88 CRX HF failed CALIFORNIA smog! HELP!!!!!!

Postby Billabong » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:05 am

Congrats man!!
I'm dealing with the same thing on my 91 SI. All original/stock parts. If I could understand half of this stuff, I'm sure I'd be in better spirits!!
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