(Advertisements are not shown for registered users)

HOW TO: Replace Input Shaft Seal, Bearing, and Linkage Seal

Got a problem with your stock CRX? This is where you should start.

Moderator: Moderators

HOW TO: Replace Input Shaft Seal, Bearing, and Linkage Seal

Postby downest » Mon May 14, 2007 1:25 am

Replacing the Input Shaft Bearing, Input Shaft Seal, and Linkage Seal on a D-Series Transmission


The D-Series cable (L3) trannies are getting old, and it's hard to find one that doesn't leak these days. A lot of them make noise too, usually due to a bad input shaft bearing. The bearing will cause a whining noise when the clutch is relased, common on old transmissions. Anyway, my transmission certainly needed new seals, but I wasn't sure about the bearing (it wasn't making noise). Since I didn't want to take the tranny out more than necessary, I did the bearing as well. My first time, it took less than one hour to complete, so I did a friend's the following week. The ones in the pictures are his, we found that the bearing had broken in the first one and we couldn't get the outer race out, so we installed the parts on a spare I had.



Materials and Tools


10mm, 12mm, 14mm sockets with extensions

8mm allen wrench

3/8" socket

snap ring pliers

rubber mallet

flat head screwdriver

slide hammer bearing puller

pliers

RTV

input shaft bearing (Honda part #91002-PS0-003)
**this P/N is for the 90-91 Si tranny, if you have something else, CHECK WITH HONDA BEFORE YOU ORDER

input shaft seal (Honda part #91216-PL3-005)

linkage seal (Honda part #91215-PL3-005)


Image
bearing puller slide hammer thingy

Image
you need 15, 20, and 21 from this diagram, under "MT CLUTCH AND DIFFERENTIAL HOUSING"




Opening it Up


I'll assume we're starting with the tranny out of the car, if you need help doing that, use the write up for removing the transmission. First thing you want to do is unscrew the 8mm allen plug in the clutch housing near the starter hole, it's the only one in there. Now turn the whole thing over and set it on a bench face down. Remove the plug at the top with a 3/8" ratchet. Remove the 12mm bolts that hold the two case halves together, you may need to remove the mount bracket and stuff to get to these.

Now on to the hardest part. Look in the hole at the top of the case, where you pulled out the plug. You'll see a snap ring around a bearing, in a groove. To get the cases apart, hold the snap ring open while pulling up on the outer case, this is a LOT easier with a friend helping. You may need to pry it if you can get a screwdriver between them, or knock it loose with the rubber mallet. If you're having trouble, or just want to do it the easy way, put a socket on the differential, under the fill bolt. Now screw the bolt in, it will push the case up a little bit so you can pry it. There you go... the case should be off!

Image
stef's tranny on the bench

Image
the snap ring you have to expand

Image
12mm bolts holding the case together

Image
upper case removed



Removing Parts

You should set aside a clean place to lay out the parts you remove here. Keep everything in order (including orientation) and clean!

The first thing you want to do is remove the reverse idler shaft and gear. Just pull up on the shaft to remove it, and the gear will be left there to remove as well. Now unbolt the two 10mm bolts holding the selector thing for reverse and remove that. Remove the 12mm bolt on the shift assembly near the forks (see picture). Now you can pull the gear stacks out. This is (again) a good place to have a helper. Hold both stacks together with the forks and pull up while your friend pries the bottom loose (gently) with a screwdriver. The whole thing will come out, try to keep it together. Lay the stacks down together, taking care not to loose pieces (the bearing at the top of the mainshaft likes to jump off). Now you can pull the differential out (just pick it right up). Remove the two bolts on the rod that goes out to the linkage (the one with the seal we're replacing). The one in the middle of the rod has a ball and spring, don't loose them. Once you have them out, slide the rod out the hole, out of the case.

Time to pull out the bearing and seals. I used a slide hammer puller tool on the input shaft bearing, some people knock it out from the other side with a hammer and an extension. Either way, get it out, the bearing is around the hole where the mainshaft (input shaft) sits, going into the clutch housing area. Once you have that out, you can pry the old seal underneath it out with a screwdriver. The seal is fairly hard, just bend one side of it inward and it will be easy to take out. The seal on the linkage can be removed using pliers and twisting as you pull on it.

Image
reverse idler gear and selector...

Image
...removed

Image
you have to remove this 12mm bolt

Image
remove the gear stacks...

Image
and set them aside

Image
the two bolts (facing up) holding the shifter rod

Image
the spring and ball assembly under the bolt on the right in the previous picture

Image
on stef's tranny, the input shaft bearing looked like this, with no trace of the missing balls :shock: . Yours shouldn't be that bad, the balls should all be in there. We ended up using another case at this point because the outer race was stuck in the case.

Image
pulling the bearing

Image
the magnet in stef's tranny, you can pry it out easily with a flat head once the stacks are out.

Image
the magnet... looks like we found the missing metal balls...


Installing New Parts

Putting the new parts in is pretty straightforward. Use the old seals/bearing and a mallet to tap the new ones into place. The bearing will have some resistance at first, then it will fall back into place once it's far enough in. You may want to replace your magnet as well (I didn't), at least clean it.


Reputting it Back Together

As always, assembly is the reverse of removal :P. Install the shifter rod before the ball/spring bolt, taking care to line up the ball socket at the end of it. Drop (ever so gently drop) the diff back in. While re-installing the stacks, have a helper line the forks up as you lower it slowly down, and don't forget the two washers under the mainshaft! Replace the 12mm bolt and then reinstall the reverse assembly, and you're done.

Clean the mating surfaces of the two pieces of the case, and apply a thin layer of RTV. Put the top case on, you might have to wiggle it a little to get things to line up. As the snap ring and bearing get close to each other, expand the ring and keep pushing down until it's held open by the bearing (it might not sit in the groove yet). Put in the 12mm bolts that hold the cases together, and tighten them down, wipe up the RTV that comes out the sides. Now check the snap ring around the bearing, if it's not in, put the tranny on its side and give the input shaft a love tap, it should seat the snap ring. You can reinstall the 8mm plug and the large 3/8" square plug as well now (and you should be done!).
Last edited by downest on Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
Tom Downes
'91 CRX Si B18C5 turbo race car project
'87 CRX Si Stock and slow flower pot
'88 4Runner daily driver
Wicked Innovation
User avatar
downest
Wicked Tom
 
Posts: 9964
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Location: Manchester, NH

(Advertisements are not shown for registered users)

Postby DAP91Si » Tue May 15, 2007 1:40 am

Thanks for that wirte up. Mine has been making this noise for years and has slowly gotten worse. I plan on doinf mine soon. Any other seals that need to be replaced? The only other one I can think of is the axle seals. Thanks.
1991 CRX Si
User avatar
DAP91Si
 
Posts: 221
Joined: 05 May 2006
Location: Mechanicsville, VA

Postby downest » Tue May 15, 2007 1:54 am

The axle seals are the only other ones to worry about, but you don't need the tranny out to do them. We actually did them with this one, but I didn't include it because it's not something that requires the tranny to be out.

So without touching the stacks, you could do 4 seals (input shaft, linkage, and the two axles) and the input shaft bearing with relative ease.


I want to stress that this is very simple. The worst part is getting the tranny on and off the car. It's a little intimidating pulling the thing apart, but really it's simple once you get to it.
Tom Downes
'91 CRX Si B18C5 turbo race car project
'87 CRX Si Stock and slow flower pot
'88 4Runner daily driver
Wicked Innovation
User avatar
downest
Wicked Tom
 
Posts: 9964
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Location: Manchester, NH

Postby '9445 » Tue May 15, 2007 2:18 pm

Nice writeup ... I did this exact thing about 10 years ago when the input shaft bearing developed a growl.

My additions:

Clean the outside of the case before you open it, you don't want any of that crud getting inside.

I don't recall needing a bearing puller to get the input shaft bearing out, but I may have just used a wooden dowel from the other side. Another trick is to gently heat the case (hot water, not a torch).

If you replace the other input shaft bearing (opposite end from the one replaced here) make sure you get it in the right way. It only has one thrust flange so if you put it in backwards the innards will pop out under the thrust load from the helical gears. (you don't want to know how I know this :rolleyes1: )

Once I had everything apart, I also rinsed all the gears and parts thoroughly in charcoal lighter fluid (substitute your favorite parts cleaner here). This removed an amazing amount of metal grit similar to what you found on the swarf collector (the magnet).
1988 CRX Si (Blade Silver). Almost stock. Owned since new. 226k miles. Rusty. Still fun.
User avatar
'9445
 
Posts: 289
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Location: Cannon Falls, MN

Postby dohcrxl » Tue May 15, 2007 10:52 pm

I had a problem getting that same bearing out of the case. Luckily, a small 90 degree angle pick did the trick. If anybody's interested for future reference, if you have ever have to disassemble the gear stacks for synchro replacement, engaging 2 different gears at once will lock the gear stacks to eachother and keep them from rotating. That will allow you to loosen and tighten that 30mm nut with the stacks still in the case.

nice pictures, good write-up!
User avatar
dohcrxl
 
Posts: 732
Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Postby downest » Tue May 15, 2007 11:06 pm

dohcrxl wrote:I had a problem getting that same bearing out of the case. Luckily, a small 90 degree angle pick did the trick. If anybody's interested for future reference, if you have ever have to disassemble the gear stacks for synchro replacement, engaging 2 different gears at once will lock the gear stacks to eachother and keep them from rotating. That will allow you to loosen and tighten that 30mm nut with the stacks still in the case.

nice pictures, good write-up!


I've done that before too... but an impact gun and gloves to hold the gears works fine too!

I tried the angle pick on the outer race but it didn't work, it's stuck in there. I'm thinking of trying the heat thing, or tack welding a piece of something I can pull on to it.
Tom Downes
'91 CRX Si B18C5 turbo race car project
'87 CRX Si Stock and slow flower pot
'88 4Runner daily driver
Wicked Innovation
User avatar
downest
Wicked Tom
 
Posts: 9964
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Location: Manchester, NH

Postby '9445 » Wed May 16, 2007 11:19 am

downest wrote:I tried the angle pick on the outer race but it didn't work, it's stuck in there. I'm thinking of trying the heat thing, or tack welding a piece of something I can pull on to it.


When I screwed up the other mainshaft bearing I had a similar situation. But that end of the case is narrow and pointy so I dunked it into a bucket of hot water for a while and then was able to move that outer race up a little bit at a time by prying on alternate sides of it. I was enormously relieved when I got the thing out after an hour or so of that (at the time the CRX was my only car).
1988 CRX Si (Blade Silver). Almost stock. Owned since new. 226k miles. Rusty. Still fun.
User avatar
'9445
 
Posts: 289
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Location: Cannon Falls, MN

Postby mossin_90 » Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:27 pm

I know this is an almost 1yr old thread but where is the part wher we add the transm fluid into the tranny?
almost everyone seems to have an opinion on what kind of fluid is used in the trany, some say 10w30 or 10w40 others say ATF.

is there a problem if I use engine oil instead os ATF and veciversa.

I know Ive seen another post about this but I cant remember now and being that this is a how to.. in the tranny....

thanks
'90 CRX DX_5sp
"Maybe it's better that way... memories can be terribly painful, being able to forget is a great blessing"
mossin_90
 
Posts: 1537
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Location: Florida

Postby rex2nr » Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:32 pm

You don't want ATF for a manual... You're thinking MTF
-Scott-
projectCRX
2013 Ford Focus Se - DD 2005 Nissan Pathfinder - family/dog/parts hauler
http://www.niagaracrxmeet.org
User avatar
rex2nr
Resto-Modder
 
Posts: 10222
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby mossin_90 » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:21 am

Thanks rex2nr
I recycled the old oil though. I know I should not but It was late and I really wanted to finish the job. I replaced the Input shaft bearing thanks to this thread :D I would have never done it with out it,
Thanks a Milliion to everyone that has contributed to it specially to Downest

I came across some probs with the tranny though, when I removed the cover of the tranny the last gear from the gear stacks came out and I placed it back but now the car is almost impossible to shift into 5th gear. I ca n shift to 5th but sometimes its easier than others and when it is acting up its very tricky to get it in. no grinding though

I need help before I take the tranny back down. Im thinking that the plastic ball that holds the shifter is either bad or that I missed something in the linkage. but to be honest . Im getting that Gutt feeling that I have to open up the tranny again :cry:

I ll look into the shifter likage this evening and I hope tis is the problem.

I do noticed that the Shifter is kind of loose I can feel the stick to move almost to 3rd gear position when it is in 5th very wabbly thats Y I think its the bushing that holds the shifter.

any help is greatly appreciated
'90 CRX DX_5sp
"Maybe it's better that way... memories can be terribly painful, being able to forget is a great blessing"
mossin_90
 
Posts: 1537
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Location: Florida

Postby rex2nr » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:28 pm

You may have put the gear on upside down.

Did you use a new bit... spring pin? That causes a lot of the play we see in the shift linkage.
-Scott-
projectCRX
2013 Ford Focus Se - DD 2005 Nissan Pathfinder - family/dog/parts hauler
http://www.niagaracrxmeet.org
User avatar
rex2nr
Resto-Modder
 
Posts: 10222
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby mossin_90 » Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:33 am

nope :rolleyes1:

I ll check it today later today. I need someone to move the shifter while I look underneath to try to spot a prob.

Thanks
'90 CRX DX_5sp
"Maybe it's better that way... memories can be terribly painful, being able to forget is a great blessing"
mossin_90
 
Posts: 1537
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Location: Florida

Postby Mista Bone » Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:08 pm

Note: No need to remove the shift shaft to replace the seal.

Use a screwdriver and hammer to drive the old seal out, then I use a 9/16" deepwell 1/2" drive socket to drive in the new seal. Takes only 2-3 minutes.
BoneSpec Transmission
"D" Tranny guru
User avatar
Mista Bone
 
Posts: 4820
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Location: Cincity, oHIo

Re: HOW TO: Replace Input Shaft Seal, Bearing, and Linkage S

Postby bobski » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:05 am

downest wrote:Image
on stef's tranny, the input shaft bearing looked like this, with no trace of the missing balls :shock: .

I replaced the ISB and seals last week using this guide. When I pulled the gear stacks and took a look at the bearing, I realized it's not ball bearings you're missing, but a plastic spacer. My old ISB has the same eight ball bearings, but with a brown plastic spacer/retainer that keeps them evenly spaced. I guess yours must have popped out and/or disintegrated, the particles getting flushed out in a fluid change. The replacement ISB I got from Majestic has a metal spacer/retainer.
Image
Image
User avatar
bobski
 
Posts: 2599
Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Location: Newark, DE

Postby downest » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:18 pm

Damn, you're right! I didn't even think about that. The center race came out with the slide hammer, I think I still have that damn case somewhere.
Tom Downes
'91 CRX Si B18C5 turbo race car project
'87 CRX Si Stock and slow flower pot
'88 4Runner daily driver
Wicked Innovation
User avatar
downest
Wicked Tom
 
Posts: 9964
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Location: Manchester, NH

Re: HOW TO: Replace Input Shaft Seal, Bearing, and Linkage Seal

Postby Mista Bone » Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:46 pm

Those pieces of the plastic bearing cage will clog the oil ports on both shafts, so they need stripped down and flushed out.

If not you'll burn up bearings.
User avatar
Mista Bone
 
Posts: 4820
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Location: Cincity, oHIo

Re: HOW TO: Replace Input Shaft Seal, Bearing, and Linkage S

Postby teapot » Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:37 pm

Where did you get your bearings? Local shop, online, or honda dealer?
User avatar
teapot
 
Posts: 51
Joined: 13 Mar 2010
Location: Wichita, KS

Re: HOW TO: Replace Input Shaft Seal, Bearing, and Linkage S

Postby Mista Bone » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:33 pm

www.hondapartscheap.com

Honda Dealer with online ordering. I've ordered from Majestic twice, both times my order was messed up. Of the $2-3k of parts I've ordered from HPC, only once was and order wrong, they sent an extra crush washer, but nothing shorted.
BoneSpec Transmission
"D" Tranny guru
User avatar
Mista Bone
 
Posts: 4820
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Location: Cincity, oHIo

Re: HOW TO: Replace Input Shaft Seal, Bearing, and Linkage S

Postby bobski » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:42 pm

Mista Bone wrote:http://www.hondapartscheap.com
Hmm. How's the shipping? I've never had Majestic (where I got my bearings) mess up the contents of an order, but they sure take their time sending stuff out.
User avatar
bobski
 
Posts: 2599
Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Location: Newark, DE

Re: HOW TO: Replace Input Shaft Seal, Bearing, and Linkage S

Postby teapot » Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:32 am

Well I actually work at a honda dealer and I can only get one differential bearing. Everything else is discontinued. I know the post is a few years old thats why I was wondering. I'm just going to get a hold of a shop in town and see what they can do.
User avatar
teapot
 
Posts: 51
Joined: 13 Mar 2010
Location: Wichita, KS

Re: HOW TO: Replace Input Shaft Seal, Bearing, and Linkage S

Postby Mista Bone » Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:15 pm

not discontinued......the part numbers have been superceeded.

look into 96-00 trannys, same bearings.
BoneSpec Transmission
"D" Tranny guru
User avatar
Mista Bone
 
Posts: 4820
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Location: Cincity, oHIo

Re: HOW TO: Replace Input Shaft Seal, Bearing, and Linkage S

Postby teapot » Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:23 pm

Mista Bone wrote:not discontinued......the part numbers have been superceeded.

look into 96-00 trannys, same bearings.

Ok i'll look into it more with the parts guy. Any 96-00 trannys (cx,dx,ex)?
User avatar
teapot
 
Posts: 51
Joined: 13 Mar 2010
Location: Wichita, KS

Re: HOW TO: Replace Input Shaft Seal, Bearing, and Linkage S

Postby neutral » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:33 am

So I'm definitely getting the whirring sound when my clutch is engaged at idle. Had it since I bought the car. Should I expect my tranny to crap the bucket here soon or can I keep going like this for a while?
89 White DOHC ZC SOLD!
88 Grey JDM B16A
User avatar
neutral
 
Posts: 283
Joined: 10 Jun 2010
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

Re: HOW TO: Replace Input Shaft Seal, Bearing, and Linkage S

Postby bobski » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:20 am

neutral wrote:So I'm definitely getting the whirring sound when my clutch is engaged at idle.

This one?
Image
neutral wrote:Should I expect my tranny to crap the bucket here soon or can I keep going like this for a while?
Is it getting worse? I wouldn't put off the repair any more than necessary. The failed bearing will put abnormal load on the input shaft, and any plastic debris or metal that flakes off could damage other parts of the transmission. Yes, you can probably drive on it but go easy and keep an ear out for any changes in volume or other qualities of the growl.
User avatar
bobski
 
Posts: 2599
Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Location: Newark, DE

Re: HOW TO: Replace Input Shaft Seal, Bearing, and Linkage S

Postby barchetta » Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:21 am

Guys bearings are all standard stuff.. go to any bearing supplier and give them the specifications... ANY bearing can be had.. in fact they are all over ebay.. those #'s on the bearing mean something... look them up.
1990 CRX HF Stock.. 157k miles.
barchetta
 
Posts: 273
Joined: 20 Nov 2010

(Advertisements are not shown for registered users)
Next

Return to Stock Garage

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 3 guests