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Recommended motor/gear oil for 5 speed tranny?

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Recommended motor/gear oil for 5 speed tranny?

Postby gryffinwings » Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:58 pm

So I am looking to do an 5 speed manual tranny oil change for my 87 CRX Si. Any recommendations, I'm seeing everything under the sun. But most threads I find via google are kinda old, and oils have been changing a bit as of late. Any recommendations?
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Re: Recommended motor/gear oil for 5 speed tranny?

Postby Gr8_EE8 » Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:20 pm

Traditional 10w40 with a zinc dithiophosphate additive. Don't stray from what works.
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Re: Recommended motor/gear oil for 5 speed tranny?

Postby Mista Bone » Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:29 pm

10w30 is what is called for....cheap Supertech is perfect for daily driving.

Yes, I rebuild Honda transmissions.

Stay away from Redline MTL or MT-90, it destroys plastic bearing cages.
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Re: Recommended motor/gear oil for 5 speed tranny?

Postby gryffinwings » Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:04 am

Mista Bone wrote:10w30 is what is called for....cheap Supertech is perfect for daily driving.

Yes, I rebuild Honda transmissions.

Stay away from Redline MTL or MT-90, it destroys plastic bearing cages.


What would you use if this was more than just daily driving, how about spirited driving, where the car goes to red line on a regular?
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Re: Recommended motor/gear oil for 5 speed tranny?

Postby Gr8_EE8 » Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:43 pm

gryffinwings wrote:
What would you use if this was more than just daily driving, how about spirited driving, where the car goes to red line on a regular?


More frequent changes, if you really want to. Deviating from the recommended oil will ake your trans shift like [crud], make bearings whine, and make you grow hair on your palms. None of that stuff is nice.
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Re: Recommended motor/gear oil for 5 speed tranny?

Postby gryffinwings » Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:55 pm

I think I will go with Valvoline Conventional in a 10w30.
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Re: Recommended motor/gear oil for 5 speed tranny?

Postby Mista Bone » Sun Aug 21, 2016 11:46 pm

Gr8_EE8 wrote:
gryffinwings wrote:
What would you use if this was more than just daily driving, how about spirited driving, where the car goes to red line on a regular?


More frequent changes, if you really want to. Deviating from the recommended oil will ake your trans shift like [crud], make bearings whine, and make you grow hair on your palms. None of that stuff is nice.


Like using the current fluid Honda recommends? Your lack of knowledge about which fluids effect the shifts, is mostly useless....except the hairy palms part, but you might be getting that issue from something else.

Unless you are tracking the car where it is gonna see a lot of heat and abuse, stock trans will do fine on plain old dino oil. You could upgrade to Pennzoil Synchomesh for 3 times the cost per quart, or just change the dino every 25-30k miles like the manual suggests. Even daily driving a Quaife or MFactory Torsen LSD, plain oil is fine. With a plated diff like Kaaz or MFactory, you'll need the Synchromesh + Type F additive to control diff chatter in the mornings or you can run Torco RTF/MTF/Blended as well as GearX fluid. OSGikens get Motul fluid. OPM (what Phantom Slip tried to copy) you use Castrol 10w30. Why Steve Eckerich prefers Castrol, I dunno. I do know using Redline Shockproof Light (Bear Snot) with and OPM diff will make it not lock up at all.

Yeah, I've been playing with these trans for around 18 years now....
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Re: Recommended motor/gear oil for 5 speed tranny?

Postby gryffinwings » Tue May 16, 2017 9:19 pm

So I finally got around to doing transmission fluid change, I noticed that it was definitely a little low which was giving me a bit of grinding, changed the fluid and normal driving is ok, however high RPM shifting from 2nd to 3rd will cause grinding if I shift too fast, but if I wait a little longer it won't grind. I used Valvoline 10w30. Recommendations? I hear the Synchromesh helps a lot in these situations.
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Re: Recommended motor/gear oil for 5 speed tranny?

Postby Mista Bone » Wed May 17, 2017 12:30 am

synchromesh isn't gonna help anything.

Either you are shifting too fast, wrong timing, or it is just wore out.

I'm gonna go with wrong timing and and too fast, which now it is wore out.

One racer can get 5 seasons out of a build, or another needs 3-4 rebuild twice a season....
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Re: Recommended motor/gear oil for 5 speed tranny?

Postby gryffinwings » Wed May 17, 2017 8:08 am

Mista Bone wrote:synchromesh isn't gonna help anything.

Either you are shifting too fast, wrong timing, or it is just wore out.

I'm gonna go with wrong timing and and too fast, which now it is wore out.

One racer can get 5 seasons out of a build, or another needs 3-4 rebuild twice a season....


I basically just started driving the car, so I'm basically getting the car up to snuff from who ever had it before me.

Fortunately for me, I know how to shift properly, I don't force any shifts, I let the RPMs fall, but getting into third gear is more inconsistent, I have to let it fall much more which is irritating cause I have to rev match a bit more.

How much would it cost to get the problem fixed? or even to get the tranny rebuilt?

Advice is appreciated.
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Re: Recommended motor/gear oil for 5 speed tranny?

Postby Mista Bone » Thu May 18, 2017 12:29 am

Depends on what is needed and if the parts are even available. I bought the last GW ISB and seal from Honda.

I'm (labor) the cheapest part.
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Re: Recommended motor/gear oil for 5 speed tranny?

Postby gryffinwings » Thu May 18, 2017 6:58 am

Mista Bone wrote:Depends on what is needed and if the parts are even available. I bought the last GW ISB and seal from Honda.

I'm (labor) the cheapest part.


Well, I found a site for overhaul kits, synchro kits, etc, place called drivetrain.com, looks like approximately $200 for a overhaul kit that includes synchros.

This is what I found:

http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_catalog/manual_transmission_part_and_overhaul_kits/honda_manual_trans_5_and_6_speed_overhaul_kit.html

I don't really mind if the parts aren't OEM parts, I realize parts can be hard to get sometimes, so I am fine with aftermarket-3rd party parts.
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Re: Recommended motor/gear oil for 5 speed tranny?

Postby ModifiedEF » Thu May 18, 2017 11:34 am

go for honda mtf... rly i tired 1000 oils and after few months always back to MTF.
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Re: Recommended motor/gear oil for 5 speed tranny?

Postby Myriad » Tue May 23, 2017 5:15 pm

ModifiedEF wrote:go for honda mtf... rly i tired 1000 oils and after few months always back to MTF.

I'm not sure why you've needed to change your tranny oil that much, but no real gain to be made with modern Honda MTF.
gryffinwings wrote:How much would it cost to get the problem fixed? or even to get the tranny rebuilt?

Advice is appreciated.

If you have a WIT tranny shop nearby, you can order a full synchro set through them for less than the cost of a different tranny. I think the last set through them was somewhere like $240. You could probly get just the 3rd gear synchro for cheap as well. Of course, Bone is the guy to send it to for the labor.
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Re: Recommended motor/gear oil for 5 speed tranny?

Postby gryffinwings » Tue May 23, 2017 9:59 pm

Myriad wrote:
ModifiedEF wrote:go for honda mtf... rly i tired 1000 oils and after few months always back to MTF.

I'm not sure why you've needed to change your tranny oil that much, but no real gain to be made with modern Honda MTF.
gryffinwings wrote:How much would it cost to get the problem fixed? or even to get the tranny rebuilt?

Advice is appreciated.

If you have a WIT tranny shop nearby, you can order a full synchro set through them for less than the cost of a different tranny. I think the last set through them was somewhere like $240. You could probly get just the 3rd gear synchro for cheap as well. Of course, Bone is the guy to send it to for the labor.


Yeah..... sending to Bone isn't going to happen, considering I'm in San Diego, I'm not going to do that. However I am willing to get my hands dirty and do it myself, just never messed with a transmission before, I'd be tempted to find a spare tranny and do a rebuild that way instead. considering the parts aren't too expensive.

Thanks for the info so far.
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Re: Recommended motor/gear oil for 5 speed tranny?

Postby Mista Bone » Wed May 24, 2017 1:09 am

I'm here to help online for free, just don't be in a rush. I helped someone in South Africa put a basket case of parts together, but it took about three weeks.

Current Honda MTF will never be allowed in anything I work on, period. Pennzoil Synchromesh is the better choice but NOT for use in something that will see 30+ minute races.

The original MTF was the [crud]. It stink up the whole garage when I drain a trans that has it, but it works. The current formula is for MPG, not longevity, which Honda made it's brand on.
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Re: Recommended motor/gear oil for 5 speed tranny?

Postby Mista Bone » Wed May 24, 2017 1:16 am

Myriad wrote:
ModifiedEF wrote:go for honda mtf... rly i tired 1000 oils and after few months always back to MTF.

I'm not sure why you've needed to change your tranny oil that much, but no real gain to be made with modern Honda MTF.
gryffinwings wrote:How much would it cost to get the problem fixed? or even to get the tranny rebuilt?

Advice is appreciated.

If you have a WIT tranny shop nearby, you can order a full synchro set through them for less than the cost of a different tranny. I think the last set through them was somewhere like $240. You could probly get just the 3rd gear synchro for cheap as well. Of course, Bone is the guy to send it to for the labor.


WIT mostly does slushboxes, have a warehouse near me. I've had a few tranny shops calling me about getting parts, stuff is getting hard to find.

Place I found by google....

http://www.americanpowertrainwarehouse.com/

Got a synchro set from there for a 90-91 LS setup but didn't need them. Ended up 88-91 RTAWD uses some of the same brass. Working on a trans for Brad Kettler with a former Honda dealer tech.

This is Brad....24 hours of what???

http://www.automobilemag.com/news/mr-ev ... d-kettler/
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Re: Recommended motor/gear oil for 5 speed tranny?

Postby gryffinwings » Wed May 24, 2017 7:17 pm

Mista Bone wrote:
Myriad wrote:
ModifiedEF wrote:go for honda mtf... rly i tired 1000 oils and after few months always back to MTF.

I'm not sure why you've needed to change your tranny oil that much, but no real gain to be made with modern Honda MTF.
gryffinwings wrote:How much would it cost to get the problem fixed? or even to get the tranny rebuilt?

Advice is appreciated.

If you have a WIT tranny shop nearby, you can order a full synchro set through them for less than the cost of a different tranny. I think the last set through them was somewhere like $240. You could probly get just the 3rd gear synchro for cheap as well. Of course, Bone is the guy to send it to for the labor.


WIT mostly does slushboxes, have a warehouse near me. I've had a few tranny shops calling me about getting parts, stuff is getting hard to find.

Place I found by google....

http://www.americanpowertrainwarehouse.com/

Got a synchro set from there for a 90-91 LS setup but didn't need them. Ended up 88-91 RTAWD uses some of the same brass. Working on a trans for Brad Kettler with a former Honda dealer tech.

This is Brad....24 hours of what???

http://www.automobilemag.com/news/mr-ev ... d-kettler/


Prices are pretty good, I found "a" rebuild kit for my transmission, however, it was only bearings and seals, there were no synchros for my tranny, the GV/GW 5-speed tranny available on that website.
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Re: Recommended motor/gear oil for 5 speed tranny?

Postby Mista Bone » Thu May 25, 2017 1:20 am

They use one step smaller brass, so getting a 5th synchro is the only issue when I was looking up parts.

GV/GW should use 88-91 3-4 for 1-2, and 88-91 5th for 3-4, 5th being tiny. Been a while since I played with one.
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Re: Recommended motor/gear oil for 5 speed tranny?

Postby gryffinwings » Thu May 25, 2017 7:48 am

Mista Bone wrote:They use one step smaller brass, so getting a 5th synchro is the only issue when I was looking up parts.

GV/GW should use 88-91 3-4 for 1-2, and 88-91 5th for 3-4, 5th being tiny. Been a while since I played with one.


I'm not entirely sure I understand what you mean, but what I'm getting is this:

88-91 L3 Tranny?
3-4 L3 synchro = 1-2 GV/GW synchro
4-5 L3 synchro = 3-4 GV/GW synchro

Found this kit:
http://www.americanpowertrainwarehouse.com/l3-sg8-s20-s40-a2-cg-gk-gs-gy-transmission-synchro-rings-set-fits-honda-accord-civic-crx-del-sol-acura-integra-srk326/

Which means I'm still out of the 2-3 and 4-5 synchro...
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Re: Recommended motor/gear oil for 5 speed tranny?

Postby gryffinwings » Thu May 25, 2017 7:53 am

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Re: Recommended motor/gear oil for 5 speed tranny?

Postby Mista Bone » Thu May 25, 2017 10:25 pm

I had issues with a kit from Transparts, they even include a red hot jawbreaker in every box

American Powertrain, been happy with my only order from them. REALLY cheap on the S40 3-4 slider/hub/fork as well as another rebuild kit.

As far as bare synchros, Synchrotech. Britney (sales) is great to deal with, Her Dad (owner) I've chatted with once or twice when I had issues.

I will honestly say, that without Synchrotech sending me a dealer price sheet a few years ago, I would not still be building transmissions.

I was sent this one year out of the blue, it was humbling....still is.

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Re: Recommended motor/gear oil for 5 speed tranny?

Postby gryffinwings » Fri May 26, 2017 3:28 pm

Mista Bone wrote:I had issues with a kit from Transparts, they even include a red hot jawbreaker in every box

American Powertrain, been happy with my only order from them. REALLY cheap on the S40 3-4 slider/hub/fork as well as another rebuild kit.

As far as bare synchros, Synchrotech. Britney (sales) is great to deal with, Her Dad (owner) I've chatted with once or twice when I had issues.

I will honestly say, that without Synchrotech sending me a dealer price sheet a few years ago, I would not still be building transmissions.

I was sent this one year out of the blue, it was humbling....still is.

Image


It's a shame, I sent a messsage to Synchrotech and they told me they do not have anything for 84-87 CRXs... guess I will have to use Transparts or keep looking... :(
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