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Am I being duped? Need advice.

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Am I being duped? Need advice.

Postby Swerc » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:31 pm

(Sorry if this isn't posted in the correct section but this started after a swap)
Quick backstory here:

Bought 91 CRX DX all stock. Bought a b16 swap kit from a respectable company. Came with just about everything needed for a full swap. Came with a y1 non-LSD tranny. Cool. Got everything installed but the car wouldn't drive in first or second gear. ( It's like the gears were missing. I posted here about it awhile back ) Also the wheels would spin in the reverse gear but the wheels spun forward. Asked around about the issues. Most people/mechanics said it sounded like a messed up tranny. Cool. Took the tranny out and sent it to a transmission shop. The respectable company told me not to have it opened up so I relayed the message to the tranny shop. After they messed with it for a bit the dubbed the tranny bad and I sent it back to the company to have it exchanged (This time for a LSD).

After a few months I get the "new" tranny. Reinstall tranny. Same problem. Decide it has to be the clutch(?). Get a new clutch but got to busy with job/school and a move to install. Now that I've moved I dropped the tranny and installed the new clutch. SAME PROBLEM.

Just as a recap. This is now the "second" transmission with the same exact problem. Along with a new clutch, I also purchased a new pressure plate, new throwout bearing, had the flywheel resurfaced and new axles.

SO.. I checked the stock number sticker thing and compared it to a picture I took of the original tranny that came with the swap (the non-LSD one). It's the same sticker - same number. I called the company and asked why they sent me the same tranny back (after apparently converting it to lsd?) They ensured me they didn't and they simply removed the sticker and put it on the new tranny for invoice reasons(??) Sure. So I started looking back at some of the pictures I had of the original tranny and comparing it to the one I have now. ( Mind you, these are apparently two separate transmissions, and per the rep I talked to on the phone the first one had already been sold. ) Here are some pictures of similarities I found.

Please let me know what you guys think of this. I didn't want to say where I bought it from incase i'm just paranoid or something, (if you really want to know some of my older posts might tell you.) but if you guys think its the same tranny I'll post where I got it from so everyone can be aware.

Thanks.

http://imgur.com/a/FuMw7
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Re: Am I being duped? Need advice.

Postby ef yu » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:06 am

transmission appears to be the same but a way to check if your trans really does have LSD is to look at the hole where the axles goes in. if you can see right through it , it has lsd. if you see a bar, it doesnt. The stamping on the trans and block says where you got it from. I would already be questioning why they felt the need to "remove the sticker" as a return would simply suffice the papers and invoice...you dont remove/trade a vin plate just to save time on invoice.
- jim
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Re: Am I being duped? Need advice.

Postby Swerc » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:14 am

I agree. The "new" tranny is in fact LSD. Sorry if I didn't specify that. The "first" tranny had a bar through it, this one does not. But what i'm thinking is that they simply added the LSD to the same tranny and sent it back to me.. Still broken. All those marking couldn't be a coincidence..

Just wanted some more opinions before I call and confront him on the lies.

(I thought about that stamp after I posted the pics.. whoops..)
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Re: Am I being duped? Need advice.

Postby Mista Bone » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:45 am

Shift linkage issue.

I need more details about the gear issues. I assume you drove it using 3-4-5 gears?
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Re: Am I being duped? Need advice.

Postby Swerc » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:54 am

The shift linkage came with the swap. I haven't actually tried to drive it around using 3-4-5 gears. So basically with the front of the car jacked up, in first and second gear the wheels don't move when given gas. In 3rd through reverse the wheels spin forward. With in on the ground - the same thing happens. The car will not stall out in any gear. When spinning one wheel in the air by hand - both tires spin in the same direction. I can hear the shift linkage/tranny clunk when i shift into all gears. If there is any info you need let me know. Thank you all for the help.
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Re: Am I being duped? Need advice.

Postby mossin_90 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:08 am

is it posible that the linkage is misaligned/slightly bent somehow or that some of the bushings are worn out?
all engine and transmission mounts are ok?
safely lift car and have it secured with towers then while you are down there have someone put the car in 1st gear, notice in what position the SL moves. now, remove shift linkage from the shifter lever side, and try redo the putting it in 1st gear. again make sure the link goes all deep into position. try releasing clutch pedal and see if tires rotate.

it could be that the shift linkage might be falling short of fully engaging the gear-- just an asumption. but well worth the try.
if that doesn't work might consider removing trans. and opening it up to make sure all forks and parts are operational.

be safe
'90 CRX DX_5sp
"Maybe it's better that way... memories can be terribly painful, being able to forget is a great blessing"
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Re: Am I being duped? Need advice.

Postby Myriad » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:58 pm

If the tranny doesn't have "LSD" stamped anywhere, I'd suspect that they slid one inside.

Before you make any claims, try to actuate the gears and spin the input shaft by hand. You should probly have the tranny pulled out of the car, but I know it gets tiring.
I got a new shell, just need to stop driving the DX so I can work on it.

I've got a filter for my mouth, it just isn't a good one.
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Re: Am I being duped? Need advice.

Postby Swerc » Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:16 am

Sorry for the late update. Was out of town for the holidays.

So after getting under the car again and playing with the shift linkage I found yet another sign that this is the original tranny I got - Scratch marks on the underside of the tranny I made with a screwdriver the first time I did this same form of troubleshooting months ago. Anyways, I stuck the screwdriver through the b*tch pin hole on the transmission side ( not sure what that little input shaft thing is called ) and rotated and pulled it manually into first gear. It's to early in the morning to start it now ( no exhaust ) but I will in a few hours and post an update. I'm not very optimistic seeing the scratch marks from my previous troubleshooting attempts.. unbelievable..

Also, I don't see "LSD" stamped anywhere on the transmission..

Hope you all had good holidays!
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Re: Am I being duped? Need advice.

Postby Swerc » Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:44 pm

Alright so we put the transmission into first gear manually using a screwdriver through the b*tch pin hole. Started her up and slowly released the clutch pedal. (The front two tires are off the ground for all of this by the way) The wheels stayed stationary for the majority of the clutch being released, that being said there was a point during the release that the wheels did move, but only slightly - So slightly it could have been vibrations or something that actually caused it. I gave it some gas but wheels didn't move at all. We tried the same process again but in second. Same outcome as in first.

In 3rd through reverse the wheels spun forward when I released the clutch. Same thing in reverse - wheels spun forward. Both wheels. We made a point to check that both were spinning forward because I heard that with LSD one tire would spin forward while the other spins in reverse with no load on the tires.

TL,DR: Wheels don't move in first and second. Wheels spin forward in every other gear including reverse.

This was all accomplished without the shift linkage hooked up.
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Re: Am I being duped? Need advice.

Postby Myriad » Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:47 am

Swerc wrote:We made a point to check that both were spinning forward because I heard that with LSD one tire would spin forward while the other spins in reverse with no load on the tires.


That is the complete opposite of what LSD's do. With an open differential, usually only 1 will spin with engine power going to it; if you turn one side by hand (engine off), then the other side will turn opposite.

I say selector fork inside is busted. 1 and 2 are in the same pair; it'd make sense if that fork or it's connection to the linkage was shot.

Also, everything points to that being the same tranny as your first. This thing is covered with so much red tape, it looks like somebody bled out on it.
I got a new shell, just need to stop driving the DX so I can work on it.

I've got a filter for my mouth, it just isn't a good one.
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Re: Am I being duped? Need advice.

Postby Mista Bone » Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:54 am

What clutch are you using?

Where are you located?
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Re: Am I being duped? Need advice.

Postby Swerc » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:24 am

We just put in a new Exedy clutch. I ordered it from Ebay a few months back.
EXEDY-PLATINUM RACING STAGE 2 CLUTCH KIT 90-91 INTEGRA 1.8L B18 JDM B16A1 S1 Y1

The stock clutch which came in the tranny gave us the same issue by the way, which is why we put in this new one.

I'm living in Florida.
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Re: Am I being duped? Need advice.

Postby Mista Bone » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:20 pm

I ask because others have used a later 92-01 clutch disc and had issues once the splines stripped out.

Wish you were closer to Ohio, I'd have a look at the trans.
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Re: Am I being duped? Need advice.

Postby Swerc » Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:16 pm

Man, that would be nice. Thanks for the offer though. Seems like I'll be dropping the transmission again and taking it to a shop again.. I'll post up what the mechanic finds.
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Re: Am I being duped? Need advice.

Postby Mista Bone » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:48 am

Many pics are needed, I like tranny pron!

Transmission pics you perverts!
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Re: Am I being duped? Need advice.

Postby Swerc » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:23 pm

I just got the tranny back from the mechanic aaaaaaand.... He is equally confused. He took the casing off and checked the inside. He reported that everything looked fine, besides it looking like it had been opened before. However when he manually put it into reverse, the output gear.. hole..? (Sorry, where the axles would go) it still spun forward! How can this even happen?
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Re: Am I being duped? Need advice.

Postby RaulH » Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:02 pm

in gear spin the input shaft do the axles spin wish it was out I could helpvmore
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Re: Am I being duped? Need advice.

Postby Swerc » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:58 pm

The tranny is still out of the car. We put it into gear and spun the input shaft. The axles do spin but they also spin forward in reverse.. and when its mounted to the car and put into first, the wheels dont spin in first or second.. im at a loss..
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Re: Am I being duped? Need advice.

Postby Mista Bone » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:10 pm

Something is bent/broken internally then. Somewhere in the shift change assembly.
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Re: Am I being duped? Need advice.

Postby RaulH » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:38 am

You said somebody you knew opened it and inspected the shift fork and changed each gear and watched each gear engage and watched the diff spin? The shift selector assembly could be installed incorrectly
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Re: Am I being duped? Need advice.

Postby Myriad » Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:10 am

So, I'd say we established that an internal part is broke. I would contact the company back and ask for a REAL exchange, not the same one with a different diff thrown in it.
I got a new shell, just need to stop driving the DX so I can work on it.

I've got a filter for my mouth, it just isn't a good one.
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Re: Am I being duped? Need advice.

Postby Mista Bone » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:02 pm

Did this swap come from a company in New Jersey?

Customer bought a B16 YS1 trans off ebay, turns out it was an LS that was JUNKED inside as 4th gear roller bearing cage exploded, not to mention is had some water inside at one point. It did have the original Honda MTF inside as judged by the smell....and my garage now smells of it.
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Re: Am I being duped? Need advice.

Postby Swerc » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:10 pm

Man, I wish I could bring it to your shop.
The swap kit came from HMotors Online... From my understanding a reputable company. Maybe not?

Yes Raul, I had a mechanic open it up and check it out but I'm not sure entirely how much in depth experience he has with the innards of trannys. Like I said, I watched him open it and go through the gears.

So now that I have all of this information do you guys believe that HMO sent me the same tranny back with a different diff installed? (It appears to be a oem diff btw) If that is what happened, not only did they commit fraud but blatantly lied by telling me my original tranny was sold. Not to mention, I'm pretty sure removing the serial number sticker from one tranny and putting it on another is illegal in itself.
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Re: Am I being duped? Need advice.

Postby Mista Bone » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:53 pm

HMO is reputable from all I have read about them online. I was "shipped" to Conn. from Ohio to fix an ITR transmission that was new from Honda with only LSD and Final Drive added.

It started having shifting issues, was opened by the mechanic that added the LSD and FD, he could find nothing wrong. I was brought in and replaced the worn parts but still didn't find the root cause. The mechanic again went through the trans. (4th time case had been opened) before the issue was found, cracked shift change assembly.

Image

Image

Only racing miles (SCCA Road Racing) and two seasond transmission builders missed it. I was dejected that the first race after I went through the trans. that the issue was still there. The other mechanic builds Miata transmssions for Spec Miata, something I was looking into doing for the OH/IN/KY/IL area.

I was stumped, which is why I wish I could look at it.

PS: I don't have a shop, just working out of a home garage, these little trans. don't need much room to work on. Not enough room to do Miata trans. though.
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Re: Am I being duped? Need advice.

Postby Swerc » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:04 pm

Hmmm i'll crack it back open and see if I can find anything like that. Thanks for the pics for reference. Could something like that cause reverse to go forward?
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