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harness mounting locations

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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby VenWood » Thu May 05, 2011 9:14 am

BuiltRSX wrote:ouch, Personally I dont see a point to a harness bar except the "FNF cool factor" I think if your gonna do something do it right, use factory setup or get a cage.


I guess you would prefer sliding around in your seat?

Telling someone that they need to install a roll cage in their daily driver/weekend autocross car is the worst advice ever. The chances that a participant will get hurt at a low speed event in a parking lot is far less than them being killed from head trauma on the road from a roll cage.
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby jfrolang » Thu May 05, 2011 11:47 am

Many people have a tendency to say cage when what they actually mean is roll bar. I would never recommend a cage for a street car but I will insist on a roll bar if you insist on harnesses.
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby As I Conspire » Thu May 05, 2011 11:49 am

i was actually thinking bout putting seats in my car too. what do you thing is the strongest option? i was going to run 1" bar stock actross each back seat for this. not up top but down on the floor behind, but then i heard you have to have it a certain hiegth, is this true? btw im looking more for the safety aspect not looks, and going with cipher auto racing seats
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby bopApocalypse » Thu May 05, 2011 5:01 pm

As I Conspire wrote:btw im looking more for the safety aspect not looks, and going with cipher auto racing seats


If you're concerned about safety on the street, a CRX (or any 20 year old non-land-barge car) is probably not they best choice.

If you're concerned about safety on the street and insist on driving a CRX, the stock seats/belts are likely the safest part of the car - and upgrading them isn't really going to make any difference in your safety.

if you're still maintaining the 'concerned about safety' ruse, then pick up some decent FIA or SFI certified seats and belts, and install a roll bar (the autopower 'race' roll bars look pretty good, and are relatively inexpensive...).

cheap aftermarket 'race seats' with no certification on them are probably less safe than the stock seats, imo.



as far as position for the mounting points of harness shoulder straps, most harness manufacturers recommend that the angle between the tops of your shoulders and the mounting point should be between 0 (level) and ~15 degrees down. In terms of front-to-back, most feel that the bar should be as close as possible to the back of the seat - less belt to stretch in that case.
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby As I Conspire » Thu May 05, 2011 7:15 pm

bopApocalypse wrote:
As I Conspire wrote:btw im looking more for the safety aspect not looks, and going with cipher auto racing seats


If you're concerned about safety on the street, a CRX (or any 20 year old non-land-barge car) is probably not they best choice.

If you're concerned about safety on the street and insist on driving a CRX, the stock seats/belts are likely the safest part of the car - and upgrading them isn't really going to make any difference in your safety.

if you're still maintaining the 'concerned about safety' ruse, then pick up some decent FIA or SFI certified seats and belts, and install a roll bar (the autopower 'race' roll bars look pretty good, and are relatively inexpensive...).

cheap aftermarket 'race seats' with no certification on them are probably less safe than the stock seats, imo.



as far as position for the mounting points of harness shoulder straps, most harness manufacturers recommend that the angle between the tops of your shoulders and the mounting point should be between 0 (level) and ~15 degrees down. In terms of front-to-back, most feel that the bar should be as close as possible to the back of the seat - less belt to stretch in that case.


ah yes, thank you and very informative i may add. i wanted new seats of coarse for looks, but i like to be sucked to the seat, if i did get new seats the old ones would stick around if i wanted to replace
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby inh » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:19 pm

Any thoughts on the Schroth Autocontroll IIs? Those pretty much have to be mounted at an angle...
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby LowFlyin » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:19 am

I've had mine mounted to the highest point of the rear floor above the gas tank. Serve me well for AutoX duties.

After mounting mine, I saw that one of my fellow CRXer autoXers had his mounted to a rear STB. I like that install much better.

Just know, in an impact, that aluminum STB will probably break away...but for AutoX and pre-impact, it holds you in nicely. :)
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby Dave_Darling » Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:47 pm

STB? Is that a Strut Tower Bar? If so, those are a bad place to mount belts. They will give or break, and that's going to make you very unhappy indeed.

There may be specific harness bars for that location; if there are then they should be fine to use. But unless it is specifically designed for that, you really do not want to use the bar to mount the belts. Even for autoX.

--DD
"Mango Bango", 1990 CRX Si -- Sold on 10/01/11, with over 227,000 miles.

VTEC is Honda's "select a cam profile on the fly" system; VTECH is a crappy phone.
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby LowFlyin » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:00 pm

Never had an issue with mine. Granted, I haven't run into anything yet.

Though, the next time the CRX is out it will at least have a 4pt roll bar, if not a full 8-10pt cage.

...but the way I had it mounted did exactly what I needed it to: keep me firmly in place in the seat while I was bounding around the cones. Never expected it to do more than that.
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby gringo7718 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:48 am

I do NOT trust the automatic door mounted seat belt as it doesn't lock up or keep me in the seat at all. Truth be told, Its not like your belt configuration is going to save you when your chassis rips in several pieces in an accident (as crx has done so many times with pics all over the interwebs etc.)

I use this to keep my ass in the seat so i can drive the car instead of fighting Gs to try and stay in my seat. This alone has given me more control of the car and made it safer already. Say what you want about doing it right...... but you cant really do it right in a daily driver as others have pointed out, so we are forced to compromise.

I have mine mounted through the chassis here on the "hump"
Image
Image
Image

Each bolt has a 2" X 4" steel plate behind it.
Image
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby crmsnghst » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:11 pm

Where did you mount the lap belt anchors?
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby Mista Bone » Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:25 pm

First, buy a race car.
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby ecugrad97 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:20 pm

gringo7718 wrote:Image



Did you make that or buy it? If you bought it, where did you get it from?
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby crmsnghst » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:17 pm

Mista Bone wrote:First, buy a race car.


Done. Next step?

I am building a 90 CRX Si for SCCA Solo STS class. I know its not the "ideal" year but it can be competitive regionally. I am looking to install a four point harness for autox use only. I would like to use a CG Lock with the OE belt, but because both the lap and shoulder belts are on retractors that won't work. Mounting to the seat bracket seems like it won't work either, especially on the outboard rear mount. That is why I am wondering how gringo7718 has his lap belt mounted because it looks like he has a 90-91.
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby crmsnghst » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:23 pm

ecugrad97 wrote:
gringo7718 wrote:Image



Did you make that or buy it? If you bought it, where did you get it from?


Looks bought. They are called mounting backup/reinforcement plates. You could easily make your own if you have the tools, but they are usually pretty cheap.

http://www.schrothracing.com/store/Competition/hardware/reinforcement-plates

http://www.saferacer.com/g-force-gf100-mounting-back-up-plate.html?productid=875

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=9309

http://www.soloperformance.com/TAKATA-Mounting-Reinforcement-Plate_p_1540.html
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby Mista Bone » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:36 am

crmsnghst wrote:
Mista Bone wrote:First, buy a race car.


Done. Next step?

I am building a 90 CRX Si for SCCA Solo STS class. I know its not the "ideal" year but it can be competitive regionally. I am looking to install a four point harness for autox use only. I would like to use a CG Lock with the OE belt, but because both the lap and shoulder belts are on retractors that won't work. Mounting to the seat bracket seems like it won't work either, especially on the outboard rear mount. That is why I am wondering how gringo7718 has his lap belt mounted because it looks like he has a 90-91.


How serious about ST/STS?

The is a WEALTH of info on Facebook from a National level Competitor on building "God's Chariot"

ST/STS is SRS BZNS!
:rofl:
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby ecugrad97 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:14 am

crmsnghst wrote:
ecugrad97 wrote:
gringo7718 wrote:Image



Did you make that or buy it? If you bought it, where did you get it from?


Looks bought. They are called mounting backup/reinforcement plates. You could easily make your own if you have the tools, but they are usually pretty cheap.

http://www.schrothracing.com/store/Competition/hardware/reinforcement-plates

http://www.saferacer.com/g-force-gf100-mounting-back-up-plate.html?productid=875

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=9309

http://www.soloperformance.com/TAKATA-Mounting-Reinforcement-Plate_p_1540.html


Thanks, I get it now.
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby crmsnghst » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:55 pm

Mista Bone wrote:
How serious about ST/STS?

The is a WEALTH of info on Facebook from a National level Competitor on building "God's Chariot"

ST/STS is SRS BZNS!
:rofl:


As serious as I (and my wallet) can be while still driving it to and from events. No trailering for me. I've got a rust free chassis with a fresh engine and the "right" sway bars on GC with Konis.

I am current with the "brain dump" Hollis Racing has posted. Sorry to see him leave STC but it will be interesting to see what he can do in STF.

Also, I've got the reigning STS National Champ (Miata) and the past ST National Champ/last year runner-up (spec civic) in the region just north of me. So when I want to know how I'm doing, I can find out.

I'm excited to get in the mix and see how I can do. I have no illusions of success, but I'm going to drive it like I stole it.

Serious indeed. It is just as much a contest of driver skill and car prep as it is an exercise in following the rules to the tiniest detail. Should be fun :rolleyes1:
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby Mista Bone » Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:57 pm

ah, You have Kerry to run against.

You know about the sandbox?

Motons.
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby crmsnghst » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:25 pm

roadraceautox.com? I don't go there often, but every now and again.

I'm not ready for Motons, or the like, just yet.
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby robhoy » Tue May 26, 2015 3:56 pm

Well, this is rather an old thread to bump, but here goes. I bought a track-toy CRX three weeks ago. Thought the fact that it already had a rollcage with racing seats & belts was a nice plus, but apparently whoever put them in didn't know what they were doing, or didn't care. The setup looks like this:

Image

I've been told this is unsafe because the belts are mounted to the rear floor of the car rather than a proper rollcage-crossbar. Unfortunately, when I did a Google Image search for proper seatbelt mounting on our cars, I was bewildered by all the variations. There's lots of images of how NOT TO mount belts, but far fewer of how TO properly and safely mount them. And web search mostly seems to come up with threads of the "you idiot, don't use a harness without a cage" variety. So, Google-fail on this one :(

Anyway -- could someone please advise me on how to make my setup safe? I'm a complete noob to this, have never owned a car with a cage or anything other than OEM seatbelt setup before. Let me know if you need more pics of the cage, etc. from other angles. Thanks :)
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby Dave_Darling » Tue May 26, 2015 5:18 pm

Google has some good answers--but different manufacturers have slightly different ways they recommend.

Here's one: http://www.gforce.com/pdf/Harness_Install_Info.pdf

The Simpson instructions, and I think the Schroth ones, say that the belts should angle inward as they go back, and may in fact cross if they are attached far enough back. At least one set says that the belts should be attached as close to the seat as possible.

--DD
"Mango Bango", 1990 CRX Si -- Sold on 10/01/11, with over 227,000 miles.

VTEC is Honda's "select a cam profile on the fly" system; VTECH is a crappy phone.
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby mike l » Wed May 27, 2015 8:21 am

I used the Schroth instructions as well. The way I understand it, for track racing, the key is the angle of deflection from where the shoulder belt goes through the seat to where it is anchored. Read pages 12 and 13 - no greater than 20 degree of deflection, and maximum anchorage distance is 8" (for optimal conditions). That essentially limits you to a harness bar or rollcage mount in a CRX.

https://www.schrothracing.com/sdocs/200 ... ctions.pdf

It does say that you can anchor further behind the seat than 8" - but you still need to maintain no greater than 20 degrees of deflection. But then you need to have cross-over on the straps. So the 20 degrees of deflection is mandatory, while the distance to anchorage is variable.

The setup you have in your car, is one frequently seen in autox setups, where the belts aren't really installed for safety - but rather were installed to only keep the driver in the seat. I have a similar setup (ONLY for autox use - NEVER used on the street, or for other kinds of racing), but my belts are crossed and attached to a DC Sports dual-tube rear strut bar. That is the only strut bar I have found that can withstand the force of pulling against the bar in a non-designed way. The single-tube designs lack the structural integrity and bend, etc.
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby tommy » Wed May 27, 2015 8:56 am

Do you know who manufactured that rollbar? I don't like the bends at the top corners, and it doesn't allow for proper mounting of the harness. I'd suggest ripping it out and getting a proper 4-point rollbar, welded in if you can deal with it, so that you'll have a bar right behind the seats to mount the harness to.

What seats are those? Might as well look at them too; I don't recognize them, so I'm fearing that they're one-off seats that are not all that safe.
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby robhoy » Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:26 pm

Hi, everybody. Thanks so much for all the detailed replies! Sorry for the delayed response, I've been totally swamped at work and have had zero time. Still swamped - just wanted to let you know I appreciate the responses. I'll write a detailed response when I get some time...
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