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harness mounting locations

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harness mounting locations

Postby ChadimusMaximus » Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:18 am

hey can people running harnesses post up pics of where they mounted them and how they did it and what not, i will be running a harness for our once a month local autox and would like to see where others mounted theirs, thanks!
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby jfrolang » Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:14 am

The consensus is you need a roll bar to do it right. If you use a seat harness without a roll bar, you're making yourself less safe, and personally I wouldn't pass a car through tech that tries that.
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby ZeebraX » Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:31 am

Yea like Jfro said its VERY unsafe. If you run just a seat and harness and you hit something with enough impact it will depress your spine down like a spring and you would most likely be paralyzed. So having your harness installed properly is extremely important.
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby nihkon » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:42 pm

The spinal compression thing isn't an issue of using a roll bar or not. It's caused by too acute of an angle with the harness.

I do agree that you should run a roll bar with the harness, or don't use a harness at all.
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby ChadimusMaximus » Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:49 am

i installed a harness bar and i know theyre not safe buuut its in and i use it for two hours once a month, i know it is unsafe to run just a harness, ive searched countless times just on this topic and all i see is what you guys said so i know but thank you very much for the health concerns! :-)b

but id really like to get a pic of how everyone has the mounted harnessesto the car itself not so much their harness and bar choices, i plan on getting an autopower roll bar later but im working with what i got right now
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby bopApocalypse » Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:21 am

my $0.02:

If you're only wearing the harness for low speed, non-contact racing (ie autocross), you're probably fine. Rollovers DO happen in autocross occasionally, so there's definitely a risk involved. However, in both the autocross-speed rollovers I've seen (rallycrosses, actually, but speeds are similar), the accidents were such that the injury concern would likely be equal with a harness+harness bar or stock belts.

As a matter of fact, I just finished installing a harness bar and a 6-pt harness in my car today - same usage as you.

The biggest problem I see is that, all of the harness bar designs I've seen, share mounting points with the pillar-mounted belts, and if you're actually using the pillar-mounted belts, prevent the top anchor from pivoting as designed. While I don't think that it's absolutely critical that that top anchor pivots, having it pivot freely is definitely a good thing in case of an accident.

My car is trailered to 80% of events, and rarely driven on the street, but it's still a risk IMO.

After the work of getting it installed, and the expense of buying the thing, I wouldn't make the same choice again - if I was setting up a harness in a car that did not need caged (IMO), I'd have a simple harness bar welded in instead - just a piece of cage-spec tubing connected to both B-pillars. Doing this would give the harness functionality desired, as well as not interfering with the functionality of the stock belts for DD use.

but, back to the question you asked...

* shoulder belts are wrapped around the harness bar (http://www.schrothracing.com/docs/Compe ... ctions.pdf for wrap instructions)
* lap belt ends are attached to stock lap belt locations (behind stock lap belt ends)
* the crotch belts :oops: I'm ashamed of the way I did these, and will likely change it in the future. :oops:
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby ecugrad97 » Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:53 am

No pictures but I have a Schroth 4pt mounted in my CRX for Autocrosses ONLY. I ran the lap belts to the rear seat mounts and the shoulder belts all the way back to where the jack and tools live. I never wear it on the street and don't worry about a problem at autoxes. The biggest problem is mounting it so far back is that there is VERY little adjustment. I'll try to get some pics.
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby solorex » Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:52 pm

Before I had a roll bar in my CRX, I used 3" SFI certified belts and used a 6-point belt. Lap belt and crotch belt are mounted to the factory locations (i.e. the crotch belt V's to the centre). I then had extra long shoulder straps made and I wrapped those around a rear strut tower bar making the angle much less acute. It worked well.
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby ecugrad97 » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:01 pm

solorex wrote:Before I had a roll bar in my CRX, I used 3" SFI certified belts and used a 6-point belt. Lap belt and crotch belt are mounted to the factory locations (i.e. the crotch belt V's to the centre). I then had extra long shoulder straps made and I wrapped those around a rear strut tower bar making the angle much less acute. It worked well.


I bought a rear strut bar to do that and I didn't want to cut the plastic on the rear panels to get it to fit. :evil:
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby ChadimusMaximus » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:17 pm

thanks for all the input guys! but my problem on the lap belts id i have an 89 usdm model, i welded in pillar mount nuts on the b pillar and on the driver side along the door jam area, so on my exhaust hump area there is no mounting spot for the harness, pics later
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby memphis » Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:16 pm

What seats are you using? I am using a Corbeau seat bracket and there is a tab for the lapbelt to bolt to on the bracket
It's not going to get any faster sitting in the garage- crxmotorsports
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby ChadimusMaximus » Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:50 pm

stock seats for now :/ im getting a corbeau fx1 or forza seat at the end of the month so maybe i should just wait until then

anyways heres the pics!
Image

i have one lap belt mounted \/\/\/\/
Image

no mounting point\/\/\/
Image

and where the heck does the crotch belt go?? lol
Image

now I KNOWWW that i need to vaccuum lol i havent had time
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby memphis » Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:02 am

I'd wait if you're going to get an aftermarket seat. Your crotch belt isnt necessary if its just auto x . To mount it you'll have to drill a hole and use a backing plate
It's not going to get any faster sitting in the garage- crxmotorsports
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby Mista Bone » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:46 am

you are pointing right at the right lower mounting point......

For low speed racing (killing cones) I'll run the top belts to my Neuspeed rear tie bar.
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby ChadimusMaximus » Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:30 am

alrighty awesome i got everything i need, thanks for all the help and i hope somebody else can use this in the future! :-)b :mrgreen:
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby nihkon » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:55 am

I know this thread wasn't made to get opinions on safety, but I just can't let this thread go on like this. The last thing we need is to have someone who doesn't know any better read all this and think it's ok to use their safety equipment like this.

I'll just say that I REALLY don't get when people acknowledge how unsafe it is, but then continue to use it anyway.
I don't get why people, knowingly, use "safety" equipment incorrectly, and actually make their cars less safe.

Seriously, aftermarket safety equipment should be used the right way....or not at all.

I don't buy the "it's only temporary" argument. I've heard too many stories where someone didn't wear their seatelts because they were "just driving across the street"...and then they happened to get in an accident. I also don't support the "I only use it a couple hours a month" argument, for the same reason above...and also because for those couple hours a month is the time that you are pushing your car to it's limits. How is that even an argument? That's like saying "I only take my seatbelts off when I'm driving really fast around corners!"

Use the harness in conjunction with a proper roll bar or roll cage, or use your stock belts.

Please do not attach your harness to a rear strut tower bar. Strut tower bars were not designed for this. The ones that are not solid bar designs ("hinged" designs like Skunk2, ebay, etc) simply are not intended to fight forces in the front-to-back direction. The ones that ARE solid designs (Neuspeed, Passwordjdm, etc) surely are not large enough diameter to properly secure a harness. Unless yoru "rear strut tower bar" is a welded-in bar incorporated into your roll bar/cage (and is the proper shape and diameter) then it is not suited for use as a harness attachment point.

If you're hell-bent on personal injury by using a harness bar without rollover protection....at LEAST use a harness from Schroth that incorporates their ASM (anti-submarine) technology. This will at least help to allow your body to roll in a similar fashion to the stock belts.


With all that said, as for your original question "where to attach your harness?"....my advice is to thoroughly read the Schroth link that bopApocalypse posted up above in this thread. Once you read that, you'll know "how" to properly install a harness. Then you can use your new-found knowledge to decide "where" to install them. :-)b
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby Thrashy » Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:44 pm

nihkon wrote:I don't buy the "it's only temporary" argument. I've heard too many stories where someone didn't wear their seatelts because they were "just driving across the street"...and then they happened to get in an accident. I also don't support the "I only use it a couple hours a month" argument, for the same reason above...and also because for those couple hours a month is the time that you are pushing your car to it's limits. How is that even an argument? That's like saying "I only take my seatbelts off when I'm driving really fast around corners!"


I would only point out that a harness for autocross use *only* doesn't pose much of a threat, at least not in a car with such a low Cg as a CRX, and on a course designed in accordance with the SCCA's safety rules (e.g., no tripped-rollover or collision hazards near the course). Given the low speeds and lack of obstacles, it's really not in any way comparable to an HPDE or other track event, and what rollovers do happen tend to occur on tall, narrow cars with soft suspensions and sticky R-comp tires. However, if somebody was even *thinking* that their car might someday see track use, or wasn't planning to retain the stock belts for street driving, I'd push for at least a proper rollbar.
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby ChadimusMaximus » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:55 pm

well id like to get a roll bar at some point but i dont have the money, th bar and harness is mainly just to save a second or two on my time, my first autox i tossed around so much i could barely keep my hands on the wheel lol, i really appreciate all the concerns and thank you for the great advice nihkon and for clearing up some things! i do not in any way intend to use my strut tower bar as a mounting point btw, thats why i bought the bar! lol
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby Mista Bone » Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:10 pm

Thrashy wrote:
nihkon wrote:I don't buy the "it's only temporary" argument. I've heard too many stories where someone didn't wear their seatelts because they were "just driving across the street"...and then they happened to get in an accident. I also don't support the "I only use it a couple hours a month" argument, for the same reason above...and also because for those couple hours a month is the time that you are pushing your car to it's limits. How is that even an argument? That's like saying "I only take my seatbelts off when I'm driving really fast around corners!"


I would only point out that a harness for autocross use *only* doesn't pose much of a threat, at least not in a car with such a low Cg as a CRX, and on a course designed in accordance with the SCCA's safety rules (e.g., no tripped-rollover or collision hazards near the course). Given the low speeds and lack of obstacles, it's really not in any way comparable to an HPDE or other track event, and what rollovers do happen tend to occur on tall, narrow cars with soft suspensions and sticky R-comp tires. However, if somebody was even *thinking* that their car might someday see track use, or wasn't planning to retain the stock belts for street driving, I'd push for at least a proper rollbar.


EXACTLY my point. I plan on using some 2" Sparco belts for autox ONLY to keep me from sliding around in the seat.
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby OGDEN aka TruEFlover » Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:16 am

Hmm. I don't see anything wrong with your harness bar. The part that bothers me are the lap belt locations. But ya i would just wait to do this setup when you get your seat like you said.

The next time you go to a track event check out the rides and see how they are mounted in. :-)b
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby OGDEN aka TruEFlover » Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:27 pm

I found this good info out. Hopefully I put the link in correctly. :-)b

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=24511
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby ecugrad97 » Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:21 am

A good example of why to not run harness bars on the street

Image

99-00 Civic Si
Sparco harness bar and seats
Front end collision (on the street)
Passenger was ejected from car
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby memphis » Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:41 pm

I was wondering if Bone was going to post this here.
It's not going to get any faster sitting in the garage- crxmotorsports
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby OGDEN aka TruEFlover » Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:05 pm

To: ecugrad97
Holly crap!! At what speed was the impact? I see the air bags deployed.
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Re: harness mounting locations

Postby BuiltRSX » Tue May 03, 2011 9:04 pm

ouch, Personally I dont see a point to a harness bar except the "FNF cool factor" I think if your gonna do something do it right, use factory setup or get a cage.
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