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Engine Noise

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Engine Noise

Postby crxbox360 » Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:19 pm

Anyone who has had it, figure out how to get rid of it? You know, that whine that comes from the engine. Like a high pitched tachometer!
Mine also has a clicking sound. And picks up the blower fan. And cracks and pops when the brake is pressed and when the key is turned from "IGN" to "RUN" and when the headlights are turned on.

I'm used to older American cars getting it, but NEVER had a problem with it in an Honda. My wife's '94 Civic never had it and my '90 CRX didn't either. I've installed many systems into Hondas and never had a problem.

And before you ask, I always run the power cable down one side and the RCAs down the other. There is no power near the RCAs and I'm using some really heavy duty, and really expensive RCAs. I had been using the cheaper ones, but thought that going with the better set would help, which it didn't.

A year and a half ago I started a thread about how horrible the sound quality from the systems in both of my CRXs were.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=89578

And while trying to clean up the sound, I suddenly developed engine noise. So it must have been something that I did, right?
Also, it may have been there, but with out the EQ hooked up, maybe I didn't hear it? And also it gets louder sometimes, and sometimes it's quieter.

I could see that, except, I've changed EVERYTHING!! Not just once, but multiple times and still the noise remains! I thought it was in the EQ because when I disconnect it, (RCA coming straight from the HU) it is still there, only much quieter. Almost unnoticeable. And with the EQ connected, even with hitting the "bypass" switch, it's still there.

Today I was replacing the fog lights and decided to replace the stiff, oily ground cable that goes from the core support to the engine on top of the valve cover. I also went ahead and added another cable from the battery to the engine (at the valve cover) and one from the battery to the core support. I used 8 gauge wire and soldered all terminal connections. The noise was still there. I've changed grounds, used the same ground for both the EQ and the HU. I also grounded the cases of both the EQ and the HU together. The amps and crossover are all grounded at the same point, which I have changed locations for the ground too.
I pulled the EQ apart and checked all of the solder joints. On some, the rosin wasn't quite burnt off, so I went a head and re-soldered everything. Put it all back together, still there.
I've replaced the ign. wires multiple times. And cleaned the terminals on the battery. I've also changed batteries.

Right now I have the EQ disconnected, and the noise is still there, but tolerable. But the thing is it really makes the sound quality much better. With out it, it, well, I don't want to start that again!

Is there anything else that anyone has tried to get rid of the noise?
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Re: Engine Noise

Postby KevinEF7 » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:11 am

Ground the RCA outputs, like so

Image

Adding a ground from the alternator CASE would be my next step if that didnt work, but that has always worked for me on customer cars. Youll notice in the picture all rca outputs are grounded to headunit casing and then continue to a nice chassis ground, go right to the chassis with that ground, dont use the ground wire in the headunit wiring harness
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Re: Engine Noise

Postby crxbox360 » Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:51 am

I'll try that. I did however, while trying different grounds, touch a ground to the RCAs, but it did nothing. The only thing that did actually make a difference is when I disconnected the EQs ground from the HUs ground. The noise got worse. But I'll try to ground all RCAs together like you said.

Also, I was wondering if maybe the alt. is going bad. When the EQ was hooked up, sometimes the noise was worse than others. Very random. That's why I started tracking down grounds.

I'll try grounding the alt. case to the battery too. I haven't done that yet cause I don't have enough 8 gauge. But I'll find something. Maybe I'll use some 4 gauge. I've still got a lot of that lying around.

Thanks man!
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Re: Engine Noise

Postby crxbox360 » Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:01 pm

I'm in the middle of working on my A/C right now, so since I was there, I grounded the alt. case. I found some 8 gauge speaker cable. separated it, and used that!

I also noticed that the factory ground cable for the battery grounds on the bracket for the clutch cable. And it's only a 10 gauge! Maybe 8 gauge at most. Also it was a little frayed. I pulled it off, and hooked up a 4 gauge to the tranny mount. Haven't started it yet, but hopefully, with all the extra grounds, it will get rid of the noise. Unless it makes more! Never seen it happen, but I heard that too many grounds can cause noise. I don't see how though.

If this doesn't help, then I'll ground the RCAs. I was also going to remove the factory ground from the harness. I've read that this can also be a problem. The cases of the EQ and HU are grounded to the bolt at the bottom of the frame of the center console.

Also, if I didn't mention already, all connections are soldered and insulated. Under the hood as well as behind the radio. And RCAs are run on the driver's side and power is down the passenger side. They don't even cross at the back by the amps.
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Re: Engine Noise

Postby NovaVTEC » Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:58 am

Usually you can fix all noise problems by connecting all grounds to one and the same point on the body. Even a separation of 20" between grounds, like radio and connected equipment, can cause induction whine.
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Re: Engine Noise

Postby crxbox360 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:55 am

Well, no go, sort of. I put everything back together, (A/C wise) installed the new 4 gauge ground, and the alt. case ground. Again, an 8 gauge grounding the battery to the body, battery to the engine block and engine block to the body.

I started the car, (at this point the EQ is still disconnected) and incredibly, there was no noise what so ever. Before there was a hint of it, but now, even with my ear to the speaker, I can't hear any noise at all. I hit the brakes, turned the headlights on, and heater fan and still nothing. No popping. GREAT!

So then I decided to hook the EQ back up. Engine noise back! FU(K!!!!!! Less than before, but still there. Messed around with the ground, changed grounds, cut the original HU wiring ground, grounded the RCAs like KevinEF7 said, on the back of the HU (4), and the back of the EQ (6). but still it's there. And the worst part. It gets worse then gets a little better. And this morning there was a crackling in the right front speaker.

Now, I know all connections are good. I double, triple, quadruple and even beyond checked them. No loose connections, no bare wires, no moving wires. At this point I’m assuming that the problem is the EQ itself. I believe it’s a Pyramid, which isn’t that great, but it sounds really good, is really small and was really cheap. If I have too, I’ll pull it out and put it into my Nova, which shouldn’t even have a stereo because you can’t hear it over the exhaust!

Now, I use an Infinity crossover in the rear to separate the frequencies to the amps. A PPI 900.4 for the mids and highs, and an older Alpine V12 mrv 1000 for the subs. But the EQ really, REALLY adds to the sound. And also, since all songs are mixed differently, it’s essential to be able to adjust the freq. on the fly.

What EQs do you guys use? I’d like to keep it inexpensive, and I know, you get what you pay for. But I also need it to be mounted below the HU in the upper pocket. That’s where the current one is.

Thanks!!
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Re: Engine Noise

Postby NovaVTEC » Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:03 pm

I use a HU that has the eq build in... Which they all do I think these days.
If the addition of the eq causes this ground loop, cause that is what you are hearing, connect everything like it was when you had no noise, and take both ground and power for the eq from the same wires supplying the radio, as close to the radio ad possible. Make sure no metal part of the eq body touches the car body. Remove any grounds to cinch leads, this can only add a ground loop.

Worst case, try a short cinch cable from the HU the EQ, and cut the shielding just before the eq. This will cut any possible ground loop between the HU and EQ itself.

Wire gauge has little to do with this because you can't fight a ground loop by low impedance ground distribution only.
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Re: Engine Noise

Postby crxbox360 » Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:55 pm

"I use a HU that has the eq build in... Which they all do I think these days." Mine does too, but for one, the external REALLY makes a difference. It really brings the music up a lot. Supposedly it's + or - 12db. It can't compare to the HU's EQ. Also, I need to be able to adjust it quick and with out looking. It takes too long to go through the menu to get to the HU's EQ. Yeah, I can raise and lower the bass mids and treble quicker, but I have to hold the volume button for a few seconds. And it doesn't allow me to adjust say just 400hz, 12khz or maybe 50hz independently. I can if I go into the menu, but again, it takes much longer, and it's not too safe to do while driving. With the external, my fingers are right there, and I don't even need to look.

I have tried every possible grounding situation, but it must just be the EQ itself. It's not mounted to any metal, it's in the plastic pocket right below the HU. And I've tried it connected to the HU's ground as well as the power.

The noise just came about one day, really bad, so I think that maybe it's just a cheap EQ. Which it is. Pyramid! I think I only paid $25 or $30 for it!
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Re: Engine Noise

Postby smilin dave » Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:04 pm

I use an audio control. It lives with the amps and have had no problems with it. I have found in 35 yrs+ that inexpensive equipment can cause serious problems. Worked for yrs in a custom shop in the 70's-90's and never really used the 5-7 band in the pass compartment units. I found the set and forget units to be more robust and less troublesome. Had to follow Howard the butcher too many times to count after in cab installs. single point grounding usually solved the issues. I would check the alt output, if it is stock, you could be exceeding the output. This will cause the problems you are describing. If so, time for an upgrade for the audio system. Good luck!
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