Wow... another D build? (56K wait for mad VTAK to kick)

[downest]

I've got some time to play around finally, so I'm trying the high compression D16 setup again. Now that I have the ignition problem worked out I want to build this thing again and hopefully we can make it a monster of a SOHC!

I went out and got a complete A6 and a bunch of stuff with it a little over a week ago. Sold the transmissions and the header, and finally I got a chance to tear the motor apart yesterday. It's pretty clean, but sat for a while. I verified that the head is ported, but there's corrosion on the valves and it looks like it could use a rebuild. I'm not keeping the head so I may just rebuild it on the side and sell it. The block is in good shape more or less, it still needs a bath.

I was pleasantly surprised that the main bearings looked new, and I don't just mean clean, they looked NEW. The rod bearings were the opposite, either way it's getting all new stuff from ACL. I cleaned up the oil pickup and pump, some miscellaneous little brackets off the block, the girdle, and oil pan. I did basically everything but the now-stripped block, I'll degrease it soon and then take it to the machine shop to sandblast it. I'll probably paint the whole engine with metalmask or something to keep it clean of corrosion when it's installed.

I'm going to start working on the oil passages and the main girdle later today or tomorrow. The compressor in the shop is awaiting a motor replacement, so that's holding me back a little bit. I have a set of pistons to go in, they need to be cleaned up and smoothed out, and I want to have the rods shot-peened before installation. I was thinking about getting some forged rods, but it's really hard to justify the money. Not only are they expensive, but I'm not sure that I need them, and dropping so much into a D16 kind of defeats the purpose of a mostly OEM-part cheap build.

I'm not too far along now, but I'm getting started with the porting of the head and working over the oil system in the bottom end. I'll try to snag a camera and get some pictures of everything as I go along, there will definitely be a write up with pictures for the final assembly, hopefully in the next couple of weeks.

Here's the plan for the motor:

Bottom end:
D16A6 block
OEM D16 crank
new matched ACL bearings (have to check these today)
ARP rod bolts
sharpened main girdle
shot-peened rods
PM7 (ZC) pistons with casting smoothed out
JE rings (most likely)
open oil holes on bearings
open and smooth oil pump channels
new OEM seals
new OEM water pump and timing belt
sandblast and paint block

Head:
D16Y8 head
ported and smoothed (not full polish)
remove hot spots and casting marks in chambers
Crower springs/retainers
stage 2 Crower NA cam for now, moving to stage 3 once the engine is running for a while
AEM cam gear
fresh OEM rebuild
Y8 3-layer headgasket


I'll be using all the bolt-ons I have now as well, I'm planning to get this whole thing together, minus the cam, and swap it in to replace my current mini-me. I'm looking into getting some H22 injectors, I think I need something a little larger, Jon's D is hitting 90% duty cycle at just over 7000 RPM. I'm also going to try to find another Z6 manifold to work on and swap in, I want to cut it open and smooth it out and port match the throttle body and the runners to the head.

[Its me DUB]

Neat...that thing should be really fun once done. Good luck with it Tom.

[ollie]

Good plan Tom.
I just finished my High comp(12:1) A6 last fall for my EG and its fun!
All I have left to do is install my Bullfrog cam.
Any idea on a final CR?

[downest]

Should be around 12.6:1, hopefully the other head I have is pretty straight and won't have to shave more than a few thousanths.

[ollie]

Yikes 12.6:1!
Hope you don't have problems with ping.I absolutely have to run 93oct on my 12:1...

['9445]

Yikes 12.6:1!
Hope you don't have problems with ping.I absolutely have to run 93oct on my 12:1...

I'm watching this with interest ... I think this sort of build would be pretty interesting around here given the availability of E85 around here. 105 octane should keep the ping at bay. Larger injectors and a new ECU map will be needed for sure (need 28% more fuel volume). New fuel lines may also be a good idea, although I have seen some reports of people running some mixes of E85 and gasoline on non-flex-fuel vehicles, and in any case everything in MN has been E10 for years now anyway and that hasn't caused any problems (for me anyway ... knock on wood).

[downest]

UPDATE!
It's a small update, but I spent a good deal of the day playing around with stuff before I got distracted cleaning and organising my parts... so I worked on it and I want to share!


I got everything taken apart today, and there's not a drop of oil left in the bottom end. Pistons are cleaned really well and ready to get pulled from the rods so I cant shot-peen the rods. Tonight or tomorrow I'm going to start work on the girlde for real, I'm kind of stalled without the compressor/die grinder, but I want to clean up the weird casting on the girdle anyway. I'm planning to take the block down to the machine shop tomorrow for sandblasting as well, so I can get it painted and ready to go.

I pulled the head off the shelf too and started to disassemble it, I was going to start cleaning that and get it ready for porting. I got distracted by making myself a nice workspace on my bench at the shop, made some wood shelves to hold everything. I also started going through all my parts up there and I realised I have a TON of stuff, I have to start bringing it back here and stacking it up neatly until I sell or use it.


I'm not too worried about detonation, Matt managed to tune it out last time I was running compression that high, I'd probably be running that still if I had known my problem was a bad distributor. I've thought about the fuel issue a bit. I think it's common with a build like this to use stock injectors, but I'm not sure it's the best idea. On Jon's car, he's hitting 90% duty cycle in the low to mid 7000RPM range. I'm keeping an eye out for some Prelude VTEC 345cc H22 injectors, that should be way more than enough. I already have the AEM pressure regulator for that.

[downest]

Finally... some pictures!

I spent a bit of time in the shop while Jon pulled the tranny on his car (another story... 21 spline shafts don't work with 20 spline clutches). I re-sized the rings to the lower end of the factory spec for end gap, I really didn't have to take much off. I also got the bearings opened up on the drill press, but I want to smooth the edges out still to make sure the bearings are flat. I used the ones that were in the block because I wanted to practise, and because I may use them, they look almost new. I stripped down the whole head, and while doing it I took a bunch of pics for tutorials, like how to remove the springs and stuff. The head is ready to get ported this week, the compressor should be all wired up tomorrow. Then it's getting cleaned and resurfaced by a friend of mine, who's also taking my pistons and rods this week and cleaning the block. I de-greased and scrubbed the block a bit, but forgot to take an after pic, oh well. I took the oil pump apart to see if I could improve the factory flow at all beyond the inlet and outlet (as Endyn's article says), but I'm a little nervous to get too crazy with the die grinder in there, for marginal (if any) reliability improvements.

Anyway, on with the pictures... maybe the 56Kers are loaded now.

First off, some stuff for working on the engine, this will be added to old write ups too:

This is an easy way to remove the valve spring assembly, it's much faster than winding the spring compressor over and over again. Use a socket that fits on the valve retainer, and tap it quickly with a hammer, the keepers will pop out, into the socket:


Then once you get the keepers, retainer, valve, and bottom piece (what's it called?) out, you need to pull out the stem seals. I use pliers with a grippy tip and grab it and twist. It's tiring and can be frustrating, so use longer handled ones for better mechanical advantage, and grippier ends help keep it on there with the oil and stuff.

Removing a seal:


Got it:



Here's one set of valves removed, on the left I have the whole assembly laid out more or less in order of how it goes together:


The head stripped down:


When you're taking the valvetrain apart, it's important to keep things organised. I use half-sized sandwich bags, make sure to use a ziplock or something so the little keepers don't sneak away. I label them with a number for the cylinder number, then "I" or "E" for intake/exhaust, and then A or B to distinguish between the two... You can see 4IB and 4EB in this pic:


I also keep all the parts together on a little shelf thing. The crank and bags and a few other things are on the bottom back shelf, head and parts on top, the girdle in front, and I have another tray that fits on top of the front one with the rest of the parts. I keep everything oriented the same way, and use absorbent towels underneath everything, which is convenient for writing on.

My shelf, adapted from my friend's old stereo rack:


Closer on the head:


The girdle, de-oiled, but not all clean yet, I'm waiting until after I sharpen the edges up. You can see where the bulges are on the top and bottom in this pic, I'll de-round the corners and make them flush with the rest.


Everything stacks nicely:


And the rest of the block stuff:


Here's one of my intake ports, it's a lot cleaner cast than the D16A1 head by far:


Here you can see the oil pump taken apart:


... and in this well-focuesd and -centered picture you can see the "T" where the two bores meet in the exit to the pump. This corner will be filled with epoxy or JB Weld, I'll open up this port a bit and smooth the transition out.


And finally, I opened up the main bearings like I said before. I fitted a drill bit into one of the holes in the girdle to get the right size, then held the bearing flat on the drill press with a small vise, open side down. This way the bore would match up with the vertical bore of the girdle and block's passages. Here you can see the unmodified bearing on the left, a hole in the girdle, and the opened bearing on the right. They match up perfectly when installed, but I have to clean the edges of the holes up from the drilling, there can't be any rough edges. Any suggestions? I was thinking about using a circular file.


Oh yeah, and here's the nekked block, before I washed it... I'll get some after pics when my friend cleans it up at work, and then when I paint it.

[Tiersin]

Just a little tip I found while taking my head apart, with the valve seals, use a dremmel and cut them vertically and they just fall off. Just be careful no to go to deep or you could damage the guides. Took me like, 5 minutes to get them off that way. Best of luck on the build BTW. Thats gonna be killer once its done.

[mattminerDOTcom]

I spy.....a rotary motor. HEATHEN!

-M@

[coldtotouch]

Tom's a pimp

[Baker]

A non motor related question..where do you find all this time??

You're def lucky to have access to a nice garage with all the tools you need.

GL man.


Really stupid question:
How will this compare and perform compared to your current mini me setup? I thought your current setup was already built?

[downest]

I spy.....a rotary motor. HEATHEN!

-M@

Hey man, that's 2 different rotaries sitting there... one housing from a series 4 and one from a 5! You have to have some love for the only motor that makes less tq/hp than a honda!

Autocross at RPI was moved from saturday to sunday... I didn't want to beat the fresh motor too much, so Greg is letting me drive the RX7, hopefully I can adapt and kick some booya.

A non motor related question..where do you find all this time??

You're def lucky to have access to a nice garage with all the tools you need.

GL man.


Really stupid question:
How will this compare and perform compared to your current mini me setup? I thought your current setup was already built?

Man I'm a student, I haven't taken a class pertaining to my major in 2 years; Before that I barely had time to make dinner! I only have class 3 days a week, and I'm at the shop most of the time I have off, I really haven't even spent much time working on this motor anyway, every time I go up there's something else that distracts me. This weekend I finally had some time to dedicate to the engine, and I need to have it done before the meet.

You're definitely right though, I'll miss having the shop available when I graduate this year. Every time I go home to tax-free New Hampshah and work on something I realise how spoiled I am with the lift and air tools. good thing it's not so far away I can't make it back out here if I need to. i'm planning on being one of the Alumni advisors for the shop, if I ever donate money to RPI in any way it will go toward the Autoshop program (which the student union hates).


I'm running a mostly stock mini-me right now (the setup you rode in) 10.something compression... boring. I can just about keep up with Jon (rep1icant) with my stage 2 cam and lower compression, I think it's all in the tuning (mattminer.com > JE... ). You should come out for garage day and see how you like the improvement!


Minor update, I sandblasted the block today... should get some paint tomorrow. I'm trying to decide between silver and black, I was planning on silver metalmask but one of my buddies suggested I black out the whole bay, it's tempting! I have two extra cars to drive around this week, a Celica and the FiSH, so I'll probably pull the motor out of my car tomorrow and have the block ready to rock, and I'll spend my day off (tomorrow) porting the head. I'm planning to have the whole thing done before this weekend, so Tom2 (Dodo) and Scott can scavenge my engine parts when they get here. All I'm really waiting on now is the stem seals and headgasket from Majestic Honda.

[jmart]

Boy am I jealous! I have most of the parts for this same setup sitting in a shed back at home.

[downest]

Ok since Jason broke my silence... here's what got done at garage day this past weekend... more updates to follow when we tune saturday:

[Its me DUB]

This build makes me miss my old mini-me. Wasn't built like this is going to be, but it was still a quick little SOHC. Lookin good bro.

I want garage day too damnit!!

[mithuth]

I forgot to ask, what intake manifold is that?

[jfrolang]

I forgot to ask, what intake manifold is that?

The one in that last pic looks like a Z6.

[rex2nr]

shoulda cleaned up up that coolant pipe... yuck!!!!

[mithuth]

shoulda cleaned up up that coolant pipe... yuck!!!!

Yes, yes you should have ... wait a sec, wasn't that Matt's job?
THAT'S IT, GO SIT IN THE CORNER!

[downest]

Finally got everything more or less straight on the motor. I've been working on it since friday, Matt is up here and helped me out... it's going ok now. I'll update when I eat and get some sleep, there's a video to come too with oil-squirting VTEC!

[downest]

Update wewt!


I've had a bunch of problems so far, I'm getting a little frustrated but keeping at it when I have time. Matt came this weekend and we got busy on the WRX and the CRX. Couldn't get it started at first, we found out that cams like mine that draw very little vacuum (usually ~-10psi at idle) coupled with the low compression of a fresh motor just don't pull enough air to start up easily for the first time. One of Matt's friends told us to run compressed air into the intake manifold with the throttle plate closed... so we did:



and helped the compression a bit:


and you can see by the smoke it worked! Took a little while to get all the oil out but it ran without smoking fine... but there were other issues.

more smoke!


While we were working on the WRX, the CRX leaked over a quart of oil right on to the shop floor! I was worried it was my engine, but I use oil in the tranny too, turned out my 250k mile non-grinding tranny decided it's done with holding oil, the input shaft seal is dead... and the linkage seal is on the way too. Time to get some seals I guess... it's just a pain to do.

I don't use the VTEC pressure switch, no matter what I did last year when I was installing the swap it wouldn't work, it would throw a code every time I should have been VTECing it up. So I rewired it and left it unplugged, no problems. Scott was here last week for the meet, and I traded with him since his switch plug was broken, and mine was fine. Since it's really a plug for me I don't care. Turns out he may have tightened it a wee bit too much, and it cracked the solenoid thing, and when I gave it some throttle this happened:

VTEC Squirt

yes, that's Matt laughing like a little girl.

So I thought it wasn't tight enough and went to check it, it fell apart in my hand:



and some of the oil on my car, the windshield was far worse:



At least my oil pressure is good Since I don't need the switch anyway, a friend of mine closed it up with a TIG, and it works now. Matt and I went out using Jon's solenoid to give it a safe enough tune so I can move it around a little this week, but it's really rich and not that fun to drive, especially in the high cam (but it idles like stock!). We should be tuning it right this weekend.

So... monday I got the welded solenoid back and went up to the shop to install it, and to clean all the oil off the car and the engine bay. It took a while to get everything off, there's still some on my wiper blades in front, I may just replace them since they're about due. Anyway, I drove it around gently a bit, and took a little trip down to Albany to get my fuel pressure gauge. Just as I was getting back into Troy, I started to hear a knock! Great... so I very gently with my fingers crossed drive up the hill and park at the shop. No knock at idle, that's good I guess? I got really angry and let it sit for a few hours. Went back up later that night not really knowing what to do, the motor has maybe 100 miles on it and shouldn't be knocking. I went to show my friend... knock was gone! After it warmed up, there was the knock again, but not so much. I wasn't sure if it's rod knock, the only time I had that before the engine blew a hole in the side pretty quick, and it vibrated like crazy.

So I read up on it and talked to some people, and yesterday I was up at the shop briefly to pull the spark plug wires and check. Once it warmed up it was there again, if a little quieter. Pulling plug wires didn't change anything, still a weird intermittent knocking like a diesel engine. I wanted to get it on the lift and drop the oil pan and do a change, but there wasn't space and I just came home and did some other things. Read up some more and I think it might be the LMAs, they've been out and sitting for a long time, and I didn't know I had to soak them in oil. I'm going to head back up and check them out this morning, I think that's the problem. One or more might be stuck, the problem is intermittent and sounds a lot like the stuff I've read about noisy or bad LMAs. I don't know if it goes away when I get into the high cam, I don't really want to drive it that hard when I'm not sure, so I'm thinking about jumping +12V to the solenoid to engage the high cam and revving it then (free revving parked) to see what happens. I'll push-test them first of course.

Damn VTEC... every time I go over to the bench to work on something I'm reminded that I have four A6 heads just chillin out over there...

anyway, updates to come again when I get the problem pinpointed today. I'm also heading to NAPA to get a stethoscope to try and isolate it.

[jmart]

keep the updates coming.

that vid was HILARIOUS

motor sounds SA-WEET!

[downest]

Yeah... really sounds awesome when it knocks too

I checked the LMAs and they sprung back fine, but I took them out and let them sit in oil for a few hours, and pumped them in and out while they were submerged. Reassembled, checked the valve lash again. A couple of the intake valves were a little tight, so I got everything the same, 006 intake and 008 exhaust as per the Crower specs for the cam. Retorques all the bolts in the head, but nothing was really off anyway. Set the timing to 12BTDC. Then when it was warm I changed the oil.

I used a clean pan to check for metal flakes or anything that would indicate a bad bearing, didn't see anything. I even took the filter apart to see what was in there, what a pain in the ass. I didn't want to hacksaw it because that would put more metal flakes in there, so I mangled it in the vise and used a hammer and chisel/screwdriver. Nothing. There was a little piece of RTV, on one of the circumferential holes that's visible on the filter when you hold it normally.

I did a compression test after that, 200-220-220-200. I think the middle two had a little oil in them still, as it was on the plugs. I regapped the plugs from 025 up to 035. Started it back up and it ran smooth, the knock is again intermittent, now it's quieter and at higher RPM only when it does appear. I'm stumped! I'm going to borrow a laptop later if I can and see what my AFRs look like, but it's louder than what I've heard detonation to be with my old motor (more of a clatter than a metallic buzzing).

[downest]

I tried a stethoscope on the motor, it seems the noise is coming from cylinder #4. It's still inconsistent, but it seems to be loudest just above the engine code plaque. It's also pretty loud in the left-most valve cover bolt (passenger side).

Still stumped... looks like I'll be pulling the oil pan.